Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post

Jim McDougall · 5th May 2016, 05:08 AM

I have continued the quest on this, which has involved major excavations here in the bookmobile! but I think I have an answer.
There is simply no way this remarkably carved hilt would be Victorian

In checking Stone (1934, fig. 259)found another of these early dirks with that curious pommel nut, this one dating c. 1700-20.
Apparantly the Highland dirk was fully developed by early 18th c. The earliest known examples and references c. 1680, with these probably developed from the ballock daggers of much earlier.
These were mainstream 1725-50, but a degree of decadence had begun by the later period.
During the various disarming acts of 1716, 1725 and 1746, the Scots had to give up their swords, but many were cut down and used for knives, for utilitarian purposes. These acts were repealed in 1782, and by then the dirk had steadily begun its decline in form.
By the early 19th century, these had become more decorative accessories than fighting arms, and the decoration had become far less refined, the knotwork lacing had become broader until it became almost basket weave.
In about 1750s, the adding of studded nails or tacks began.

These carved grips with the distinct waist between them and the haunches while resembling some forms of c. 1815-25 (Peterson, 1968, #72), are far too intricately carved to be that late. The example shown in that reference has the studded, shallow basket weave effect .

In the 1750s period, as the studded nails decoration was beginning, the dark heather root grips still had the deep fluting under the pommel, (Peterson p.59) and this author (p60) notes the tang faster or ornamental flat nut was replaced by a knob after about 1740. Thus this form of four pronged nut was around c. 1710-40.

The bottom of the haunches at the blade began to disappear around 1750s but certainly by 1782.
I did find a scabbard with the sharply scalloped brass mounts from this period as well (Peterson #72).

I am still unclear on the blade, which as far as I can see is specifically for a knife, and is not cut down blade as I would expect on such an apparently early hilt .

I would say we might date the hilt components here to around 1740s-50s based on these notes. The blade and scabbard likely added later, probably more toward the end of the 18th century. I would note here that, particularly in the Highlands, distinct demarcations are difficult as far as dates and style, as noted by Whitelaw (1908). While certain conventions may have changed in more established locations, the rural and more remote areas took many years for changes to take place .

These at least are my opinions based on research from
"Daggers and Fighting Knives of the Western World"
Harold L. Peterson , N.Y. 1968, pp.59-61

"Scottish Arms Makers"
Charles E. Whitelaw, Transactions of Glasgow Archaeological Society
Vol. V, 1908, published 1934

"Early Scottish Weapons and Related Militaria"
Howard Mesnard , "Book of Edged Weapons" Ed. George Weatherly (1997)
pp.175-182

I hope this helps. Pretty fantastic dirk!!!

5th May 2016, 05:08 AM	#7
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,800	I have continued the quest on this, which has involved major excavations here in the bookmobile! but I think I have an answer. There is simply no way this remarkably carved hilt would be Victorian In checking Stone (1934, fig. 259)found another of these early dirks with that curious pommel nut, this one dating c. 1700-20. Apparantly the Highland dirk was fully developed by early 18th c. The earliest known examples and references c. 1680, with these probably developed from the ballock daggers of much earlier. These were mainstream 1725-50, but a degree of decadence had begun by the later period. During the various disarming acts of 1716, 1725 and 1746, the Scots had to give up their swords, but many were cut down and used for knives, for utilitarian purposes. These acts were repealed in 1782, and by then the dirk had steadily begun its decline in form. By the early 19th century, these had become more decorative accessories than fighting arms, and the decoration had become far less refined, the knotwork lacing had become broader until it became almost basket weave. In about 1750s, the adding of studded nails or tacks began. These carved grips with the distinct waist between them and the haunches while resembling some forms of c. 1815-25 (Peterson, 1968, #72), are far too intricately carved to be that late. The example shown in that reference has the studded, shallow basket weave effect . In the 1750s period, as the studded nails decoration was beginning, the dark heather root grips still had the deep fluting under the pommel, (Peterson p.59) and this author (p60) notes the tang faster or ornamental flat nut was replaced by a knob after about 1740. Thus this form of four pronged nut was around c. 1710-40. The bottom of the haunches at the blade began to disappear around 1750s but certainly by 1782. I did find a scabbard with the sharply scalloped brass mounts from this period as well (Peterson #72). I am still unclear on the blade, which as far as I can see is specifically for a knife, and is not cut down blade as I would expect on such an apparently early hilt . I would say we might date the hilt components here to around 1740s-50s based on these notes. The blade and scabbard likely added later, probably more toward the end of the 18th century. I would note here that, particularly in the Highlands, distinct demarcations are difficult as far as dates and style, as noted by Whitelaw (1908). While certain conventions may have changed in more established locations, the rural and more remote areas took many years for changes to take place . These at least are my opinions based on research from "Daggers and Fighting Knives of the Western World" Harold L. Peterson , N.Y. 1968, pp.59-61 "Scottish Arms Makers" Charles E. Whitelaw, Transactions of Glasgow Archaeological Society Vol. V, 1908, published 1934 "Early Scottish Weapons and Related Militaria" Howard Mesnard , "Book of Edged Weapons" Ed. George Weatherly (1997) pp.175-182 I hope this helps. Pretty fantastic dirk!!!