Rivkin,
I agree entirely with Marc on these, and I think these likely would be placed in colonial New Spain. This has long been one of my favorite weapons subjects and always intriguing because Spanish colonial regions had such hybridization and perpetual use of venerable forms of weaponry. The Spaniards were deeply set in maintaining traditional weapons, and many early weapons saw use well into the 19th century, whether as heirloom examples or entirely refurbished and often composite.
As Marc has pointed out, the top example with cup guard is similar to the
model 1796 cavalry troopers sword ("Armamento Portatil Espanol 1764-1939" , B.Rubi, Madrid 1976, p.27, #4). The only difference is the straight quillon bar, the standard example has upward turned quillon on one end and the other is branched downward. The straight crossbar seems characteristic of other swords found in Spanish colonial regions, as are the simply scribed terminals of the quillons. The stamps on the forte of the blade also seem consistant with some other examples I have seen. The sword in your picture does seem possibly cleaned and remounted as most of these are found highly patinated. The wire wrap and four bar grip is consistant with many earlier Spanish swords of 18th century including rapiers and 'bilbos'.
The second sword, again as Marc has pointed out, seems clearly composite, especially with the extremely narrow rapier blade of 17th century form. The flattened form pommel is found on 18th century Spanish rapiers, and the crossguard has the downward turned escutcheon of shield shape seen on developed hilt Spanish rapiers of 16th-17th c. While the sword is composite, the components may have been together for some time and possibly professionally restored with new grip wrap. It is important to note that colonial armourers often fashioned and refurbished components from varied earlier weapons to provide Spanish officers with traditional forms desired.
These early form rapier blades were shipped to the colonies well into the 18th c. to be used in swords in the colonies long after these blades had gone out of fashion in Europe. I have seen examples of these thin blades found in bundles in 18th century Spanish shipwrecks off the coast of the Americas.
Again, the quillon terminals seem very Spanish as well. The bars of the hilt seem crudely fashioned and somewhat consistant with blacksmith quality interpretation.
Again, agreeing with Marc, while these seem likely colonial examples...caveat emptor! Be sure to establish clear terms with the seller if return is necessary. From the pictures they look pretty good...I'm jealous!!!!
All the best,
Jim