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					Originally Posted by Matchlock
					
				 Thanks a lot, Jasper,
 Do you have a close-up of that cypher 4 you mentioned?
 
 Best,
 m
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 Michael, look at the first picture!
more open the guard, the earlier the Katzbalger!
late 15th century, even with a straight guard into the middle of the 16th century with a completely closed guard.
best,
jasper