Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post - The “ regulation Khyber Knife” in the Afghani Army at end of the 19th

Jim McDougall · 10th September 2013, 06:01 PM

Thank you very much Ariel, and thank you for the interesting input on the sword with ENFIELD markings which was sold at Bonhams. Actually I had been working on that aspect and following the idea that perhaps that particular supplier may have had some contractual circumstances with regard to materials for Afghanistan. It is known of course that they were key suppliers of bayonets in the periods prior to the 2nd Anglo-Afghan war of 1880.
Apparantly in numerous cases these bayonets were fully fabricated in Germany, but were specifically for the issued rifles. I had wondered, as Gav has well suggested, if perhaps there might have been some contract via German producers to manufacture these type swords established at Enfield . Unfortunately thus far sources with whom I sought this data have been unresponsive.

I think Mercenary brings up a most valid point in that perhaps these are indeed spurious markings, as apparantly effectively suggested in the original sale description at Bonhams. It does seem quite possible as the placement in configuration may reveal more.This does not eliminate the possibility of variation , but certainly offers plausibility to these being spuriously placed, a common case in many weapons produced as copies for generations in these areas. Most common case in point of course many East India Co. locks etc.

With regard to the Nepali weapon, while it is quite interesting, I cannot place any particular similarity to the more workmanlike hilts of these 'regulation' type Afghan hilts, and agree with what Mahratt has noted. To me the Nepali hilts look more like 18th century English hanger hilts with langet. The production of such components for use by units in British occupied regions is however supportive of the concept establishef of thier supply to such regions.

Ariel, I think your suggestion of these hilts being supplied by British in period pre-2nd Anglo-Afghan war of 1880 is well placed, and agree this form must have become used when the Mashin Khana began production, but need more proof of prototype of these earlier forms. I cannot retrieve the markings of Enfield for the Bonhams example so it might be compared to other Enfield markings.

10th September 2013, 06:01 PM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,193	Thank you very much Ariel, and thank you for the interesting input on the sword with ENFIELD markings which was sold at Bonhams. Actually I had been working on that aspect and following the idea that perhaps that particular supplier may have had some contractual circumstances with regard to materials for Afghanistan. It is known of course that they were key suppliers of bayonets in the periods prior to the 2nd Anglo-Afghan war of 1880. Apparantly in numerous cases these bayonets were fully fabricated in Germany, but were specifically for the issued rifles. I had wondered, as Gav has well suggested, if perhaps there might have been some contract via German producers to manufacture these type swords established at Enfield . Unfortunately thus far sources with whom I sought this data have been unresponsive. I think Mercenary brings up a most valid point in that perhaps these are indeed spurious markings, as apparantly effectively suggested in the original sale description at Bonhams. It does seem quite possible as the placement in configuration may reveal more.This does not eliminate the possibility of variation , but certainly offers plausibility to these being spuriously placed, a common case in many weapons produced as copies for generations in these areas. Most common case in point of course many East India Co. locks etc. With regard to the Nepali weapon, while it is quite interesting, I cannot place any particular similarity to the more workmanlike hilts of these 'regulation' type Afghan hilts, and agree with what Mahratt has noted. To me the Nepali hilts look more like 18th century English hanger hilts with langet. The production of such components for use by units in British occupied regions is however supportive of the concept establishef of thier supply to such regions. Ariel, I think your suggestion of these hilts being supplied by British in period pre-2nd Anglo-Afghan war of 1880 is well placed, and agree this form must have become used when the Mashin Khana began production, but need more proof of prototype of these earlier forms. I cannot retrieve the markings of Enfield for the Bonhams example so it might be compared to other Enfield markings.