[kai]

Hello Alan,

However Kai, having said that, I feel that you have now placed me in a position where I must justify my own opinion.

Sorry, my passing comment wasn't meant to put you in any such position. I was merely trying to maximize bang for the buck from the perspective of a budding collector.

The value of Ensiklopedi to somebody who does not read Indonesian is in the multitude of illustrations and their captions; to understand those, very little, if any knowledge of Bahasa Indonesia is required. The observation that "more up to date" sources are available on line is interesting to me, as my own inclination is to turn to the traditional sources for reliable information in respect of classificatory information, rather than more recent sources, and Ensiklopedi is principally a book that provides classificatory information. Bambang Harsrinuksmo drew upon both current opinion, and upon the literature of a past age in his compilation of Ensiklopedi, which makes of it a "one-stop shop" if we need a quick and easy classification.

It certainly deserves a place in a keris library. I'm just not convinced that it is of paramount importance early in a keris career. I'm missing in-depth discussions rather than focusing on names (which could change around the next corner); it's an encyklopedia though... While I can't judge the veracity of informaton on keris Jawa, I'm also somewhat disappointed about entries on keris from other cultures.

Groneman's work is a landmark, no doubt about it. As a part of history it is of extreme value, and deserves to be read by all of us who have a keris interest. However, although there is much of value in this work, there are also more than a few flaws. Flaws which are to be expected when we consider the time at which it was written, and the societal position of the person who wrote it. Groneman is of great historical interest, but as a source of information I could not recommend it to a newcomer attempting to come to terms with the keris. Where I do find Groneman to be of great interest is as a reflection of the light in which the Javanese regarded their Dutch masters.

I agree. One added value - of the translation only - that I thought of were the many added pics of old keris from Dutch musea, etc. (which I believe would help to get a new collector "in tune" with traditional keris rather than modern low-end work). Same-o for the kris disk which excells at showing "good ol' stuff" from many different regions IMHO.

I have great respect for the late Karsten Sejr Jensen, and as with several other authors for whom I also have great personal respect, I will refrain from comment on his work.

I believe that a factual approach regarding the contributions of others (that notes good/interesting facets, identifies what might be dubious or unsupported by hard evidence, or explains what can be proven to be wrong) is the best way to advance knowledge. I may miss some subleties of life but don't think this should change just because someone is dead. I, for one, would be pretty much pissed if people stopped discussing any ideas/etc. of mine just because the inevitable had happened.

I may be wrong, but I feel that most serious students of the keris are in agreement that an understanding of the keris cannot be gained from books written principally about the keris, but rather from reference works dealing with sociology and anthropology.

I agree that works about ethnic groups and their specific cultures in general are very important for understanding. However, this is quite a different aim than the recommendations we started with...

Perhaps you would be so kind as to provide us with some of your recommendations in those fields? I am constantly searching for material I have not yet seen in these fields that could assist my own limited understanding.

I have to admit that I have drawn a lot from your prior recommendations in this respect - like the works of Wiener, etc. I reckon that I'd need to come up with pretty obscure references for you not having read them already!

Having said that, I also feel that for any period one is interested in, it also helps to spend considerable time on researching the neighbouring cultures (like Indian subcontinent to Chaam for the Hindu-Buddhist era) as well as cultures that had a heavy presence throughout the archipelago (Arab/China/Japan as well as Bugis or Moro contenders).

One meta resource I find myself returning to regularly is the Aceh library where a lot of treasures can be discovered (from early colonial sources to academic papers). I wish we had such resources freely available for all regions of the world (without prior desaster that is)!

Regards,
Kai