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Old 12th December 2012, 04:22 PM   #138
Ibrahiim al Balooshi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fernando
Olá Ibrahiim,
You will pardon my imaturity in these things, as i am not sure if i understand the way you wish to put things.
... even though i dare dropping a couple notes:

Castão is not a crude stick but the knob/handle of a stick when its ornamentation is implicit. One used to see them "encastoados" with ivory, gems and rare metals out there. The word is not portuguese (latin), but of German originated, later transited to old french, from where it was adopted to portuguese language.

I am a bit puzzled in that you seem to rapidly put in the same basket the Islamic concept of the Gineta with the Budhist pattern that you pretend to be the provenance of the Kastane false quillons.



Salaams Fernando~ Very interesting. Thank you for your clarification on the stick word Castão which I thought just meant "stick" Now with that information it certainly poses the question was the original word from that and not Castas? What we do know is that the Portuguese word Castas was the word applied to the Indian Caste system and that was the line up I applied etc etc... however, looking for the word root is as you well know a hazard worth avoiding...What is important is the fact that no evidence appears pre Portuguese involvement in Sri Lanka of the Kastane.

Your second point about Islamic and Buddhist mixed style of hilt is equally evasive of a straight answer since an equally styled type of sword coming down from the Indian style line could also be responsible for the essence of the decorative layout... take for example the Tulvar with quillons and knuckleguard...A clever designer using the Buddhist style could come up with a Kastane design from that...Equally a re-hash of the Zanzibari Nimcha with Buddhist decorated hilt would produce a Kastane just as easily.

However, that is not the point. Focus is upon the Portuguese/Sri Lankan form and the time of the Portuguese. It was they who named the weapon and since no Kastane is evidenced prior to their arrival logic points to their involvement and because of the Buddhist influence the inclusion of the Buddhist Iconic hilt is a clear indicator of Sri Lankan cooperation.

Naturally there is another supposition that the Sri Lankans designed it with no cooperation with anyone but coincidentally at the same time as the arrival of the Portuguese... and that the word Kastane is in fact a Sri Lankan word or concoction that we have no evidence of... lost in time...or that once it was produced it suddenly adopted a Portuguese name. Hardly a researchable topic.

Eyesight also tells us that the hilt and scabbard design are Sri Lankan although the timeline indicates cooperation in weapons design with the Portuguese since they were also making guns together..

Of course you may be quite right about the "Quillon" situation being perhaps totally nothing to do with the Ginetta. In fact, my previous thoughts were that they weren't quillons but simply a reflection of the deities on the Vajra item, therefor, I don't disagree but it alters not my hypothesis neither does the too-and-fro with the "whats in a word conundrum" ~ though it is interesting.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Note~ Reproduced here is my carefully worded Hypothesis for perusal.

"The Kastane, named so by the Portuguese, was introduced designed and built with Portuguese collaboration in Royal workshops in Sri Lanka in the late 1500/early1600s... and variously afterwards for many centuries. The Portuguese part of the design may have introduced the basic hilt shape and *cutlass fashion popular in Portuguese/Spanish Jinetta forms whilst the main theme came from the Sri Lankan design taken from Buddhist structures in history encompassing Makara, supporting Deities and Buddhist ritual-item related Quillons" (as at #115).

*I will stick with that for now and add that the reason for the inclusion of the words cutlass fashion is to net in the similar curved short Nimcha style (and assuming a cutlass action of a short ships sword).
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