Dredging This Up Exotic Flintlock
 

Any ideas from the gun lobby ?? ;) :D
http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/002066.html

Hi Rick,
Not an expert gun lobbyist ;) , but having read the old comments on this piece, I truly feel that it is NOT a copy. I have a VERY similar piece in styling (but not the markings or length, of course)that was percussion and came from an old collection, ca. 1850. I would agree with the forumites who suggested India just based on some clues. #1 The designs do distinctly look more Indian than Islamic. Most of the Persian types had more elaborate and distinctly decorative butt caps than your model. #2. The length! Very impressive and reminds me of at least two other examples I've seen in auction catalogs listed as Indian sub-continent. Sorry, I no longer have the exact references. Because of the relatively late usage of earlier-style firearms in this region of the world, despite it being flint lock, I suspect it to be more mid-19th century judging from the wear/patina, but this is just my two-cents. On to the real experts...

Dear Rick,
 

I would ask you to consider a couple of aspects. Firstly, the basic elements of the pistol seems to be well fashioned. The wood, the brass trigger guard and butt tang, and the lock seem to belong together. The ornamentation on the barrel and the lock are at stark contrast therewith. So consider the possibility that the ornamentation of the barrel and lock could have been introduced subsequently. Overall the gun to me seems of European manufacture and design whilst the ornamentation on the barrel and the lock could be Indian. Could you post a photograph of the tang button of the butt tang. Pl. note that I have not included the barrel in the list of original components. I am uncertain about the barrel and feel that there is a posibility that it was introduced too. The damamge in the wood would be consistent with that. The barrel is rounded thorughout and the barrel tang also is not consistent with European design in my opinion. If you are looking at the ornamentation elements I would look at the barrel and lock seperately and the elements on the wood, and the brass seperately. The lock itself which is one of the critical elements in a firearm seems to be of European manufacture. As for age I would go for the 19th century.

Have seen Balkan guns like this with similar chiseled human figures on the barrel. Can you post closeups? Costumes they are wearing should tell more about origin but it looks from your pics like Balkans, also overall form is Ottoman Empire not Indian. Definitely right though, not a copy.
I didn't see anything like this when I was in Tunisia last year but arms migrated quite a bit along with the men that used them and a lot of mercenaries from Bosnia and Albania served in N. Africa. Again I'd like to see better pics but looks 18th or early 19th c to me. Nice old soldier

Very rust(ic) :D
Seriously though, I agree it does not look Indian to me either. More Balkan area. Could be European---Belgian?? made for the eastern market. Any marks under the barrel?
Regards Stuart

I'd go with Balkan or Turkish/Moorish.

If it was European, the style would dictate it was made early to mid 18th Century, but in Turkey and such, this style was made well into the 19th century.
There is nothing wrong with the round barrel and square tang that would say it Isn't European, and the straighted frizzen was quite often used on European arms, yet the overall look and certainly the heavy decoration says Balkan or Turkish to me.
I think the decoration could have been added later, as it's not up to par with the overall looks of the piece.
A good example of ; "now, if it could only talk!"

R.

Closeups Ward . :)
Thanks !

One Last Image
 

Faces are everywhere; all the spaces between the figures have animals and monsters carved in . :)

The bearded face on the breech and the frizzen are what I was looking for,
definitely Balkans. They carved that same face on dagger handles and other things, looks almost like a Viking motif. Who knows, it could be. They were around there at one time.
The clothing the figures are wearing isnt Indian either, could probably identify it by browsing some ethnic dress websites. Early 19th century is probably about right.

Thanks Ward, Richard et al . :)

:shrug: Just one question. Does the bearded face close to the breech end have a 'third eye' and the one on the frizzen too or is it some other symbolism?

I think its pretty clear the one on the breech is wearing a helmet.
One on the frizzen, its harder to tell. But a third eye?
Dont see it sorry

Hi.

Helmet. Hmmmm. OK. I thought that was hair above with a lock falling on the forehead. I could be wrong. Just expressing my opinion. :)

The figure on the upper cock jaw and the big one on the barrel look to be wearing helmets too, with a lot of feathers? At first glance they look Indian but I've seen a couple of these pistols and a long guns It was a rasak and had the same Euro type flintlock and barrel with those figures.

Rasak
 

Hi Ward, Rasak as in ?
http://www.nmm.ac.uk/collections/exp...cfm?ID=AAA2546

Yes. They are supposed to be from Albania but probably came more from the general area. i've seen some with Greek names on them too.

The sword worn by one of the figures appears to have the ottoman/Persian shamshir grip as well.

The face on the top of the barrel at the breech resembles the old German Bellarmine jugs from 16th century....but I'll still go with Turkish/ottoman /Balkan. these were all at one time part of the same empire anyway, so it isn't like I can't make up my mind!! ;) :)

Richard.