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-   -   Yataghan translation? , great calligraphy! (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=7679)

eftihis 28th November 2008 07:52 PM

Yataghan translation? , great calligraphy!
 
12 Attachment(s)
Hi, this is a great yataghan with a very good calligraphy.
Looking forward for a translation. Its a lot of work for our islamic script experts, but even a general comment about what are the inscriptions about whould be fine! Thanks!

Gonzalo G 29th November 2008 03:41 AM

Looks a very good koftgar. The third photo seems upwards. I don´t recall in this moment seeing the blade grooves going so far to the point on a yataghan. Thank you for the photos.
Regards

Gonzalo

Zifir 30th November 2008 09:12 AM

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It will take me some time to translate and some parts seem to be difficult to translate but I'll give a shot.



Hakim Ali Besim Efendi (this is the name of the owner, the title "Hakim" has two meanings, 1) judge, magistrate 2) ruler, governor)

Zifir 30th November 2008 09:17 AM

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Ey gönül bir can içün her cana zillet eyleme
İşret-i dünya içün sultana minnet eyleme

Do not hold oh heart all the lives in contempt just for a life
Do not bow to the sultan for the pleasures of mundane life

Zifir 30th November 2008 09:29 AM

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Sine-i 'adaya fal açtı hançerin
Rahmet üstada olsun bu mücevherin

Your dagger opened the bossom of enemy for soothsaying
May God Bless the master of this jewel (meaning the yatağan, I believe)

This is a very interesting part but there is also possibility that I'm not interpreting it correctly. Soothsaying by looking at the entrails of animals was a pagan practice, it is interesting if the inscription refers to such knowledge.

Zifir 30th November 2008 09:30 AM

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1241 (1826)

Zifir 3rd December 2008 03:36 PM

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sine-i 'adaya yarub bu bıçağı kıl nişan
sahibi daim muzaffer eyle olsun alişan

Let this knife be a sign on the bossom of the enemy
Let its owner be glorious and high in fame

Zifir 3rd December 2008 03:44 PM

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1)Ya Muhammed kıl şefaat ümmetindendir Ali Besim
2)Ya Hafiyyü'l-eltaf ................................... (need help from Dom here)


1)O Muhammed! Intercede on the day of Judgement on the behalf of Ali Besim who is one of your Ummah (community of believers)
2)???

Andrew 3rd December 2008 03:48 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zifir
1241 (1826)


The koftgari looks to be in very good condition if it's nearly 200 years old.

Is it possible this sword was made to memorialize the massacre of the Janissary corps in 1826 by Mahmud II?

Zifir 3rd December 2008 03:51 PM

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İlahi dilerim sahibine tebarek
Olsun bu bıçak sahibine mübarek

O Allah we ask blessings for the owner of this knife
Let this knife be auspicious for its owner


Excuse my poor translation, but the overall meaning is understandable I think :)

Zifir 3rd December 2008 03:55 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew
The koftgari looks to be in very good condition if it's nearly 200 years old.

Is it possible this sword was made to memorialize the massacre of the Janissary corps in 1826 by Mahmud II?


In fact the number (2) is partly erased, I am just guessing It's (2). Other option is to read it as 1341 (1922) but I don't know really.

Andrew 3rd December 2008 04:01 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zifir
In fact the number (2) is partly erased, I am just guessing It's (2). Other option is to read it as 1341 (1922) but I don't know really.



That date makes sense: 1922 essentially saw the end of the war of independence and abolition of the Sultanate. 1923 was the year independence was ratified, however. :shrug:

(got to love Wikipedia :D )

TVV 3rd December 2008 05:24 PM

To me this looks like an early 19th century piece. I do not find it that unusual for inlay to be preserved well, especially if it was well done, which appears to be the case with this quality yataghan. :shrug:
Regards,
Teodor

ariel 4th December 2008 11:14 PM

I fully agree with Teodor: old beastie, not 20th century!!!
The brass handle and the scabbard seem to be popular in the Balkans. At least, there are quite a few in the Dora Boscovic's book on yataghans from Zagreb. and many of the early ones have pretty intact koftgari.

Gonzalo G 5th December 2008 08:18 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by TVV
To me this looks like an early 19th century piece. I do not find it that unusual for inlay to be preserved well, especially if it was well done, which appears to be the case with this quality yataghan. :shrug:
Regards,
Teodor


Is it an inlay? It called my attention the lack of visible crisscross to be koftgari, it seemed too perfect, but I thought the lines were too wide to be an inlay. Altough, photograps can be tricky in relation with proportions and sizes. Yes, the apearance is more like an inlay, but I need to confirm it with you. Thank you.
Regards

Gonzalo

TVV 5th December 2008 03:43 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gonzalo G
Is it an inlay? It called my attention the lack of visible crisscross to be koftgari, it seemed too perfect, but I thought the lines were too wide to be an inlay. Altough, photograps can be tricky in relation with proportions and sizes. Yes, the apearance is more like an inlay, but I need to confirm it with you. Thank you.
Regards

Gonzalo


Gonzalo,
Just like you I am going by the pictures. Eftihis is the owner of this beautiful piece and maybe he can shed more light on the technoque used for the inscriptions.
Regards,
Teodor

Yannis 6th December 2008 08:48 AM

If this yataghan was not used and it was in the scabbard for 200 years it is normal that koftgari is like new.
You can notice that it is some gold missing on the back side of the blade. Exactly were it is more like to be missing, because from the contact with the throat of the scabbard anytime you push it in or you pull it out.

Dom 26th December 2008 09:14 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zifir
1)Ya Muhammed kıl şefaat ümmetindendir Ali Besim
2)Ya Hafiyyü'l-eltaf ................................... (need help from Dom here)


1)O Muhammed! Intercede on the day of Judgement on the behalf of Ali Besim who is one of your Ummah (community of believers)
2)???


2) Ya Hafiyyü'l-elaltaf nagina mema nakhaf

2) save us from what we are afraid

thanks for the translation,
because .... was in turkish :p
great job

à +

Dom


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