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-   -   some info about this pamor, please (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=6516)

sjors 10th June 2008 01:23 PM

some info about this pamor, please
 
3 Attachment(s)
Sorry, but here I am again with a question :confused:
I bought this Solo keris in a Dutch antiqueshop, about 25 years ago.
I would like to know more about its pamor (and its pamors purpose, if possible).
Maybe you can even tell me where I can get more information about different kinds of pamor, (a website or a good book with clear photographs...) so I can try to find out by myself.

Thank you, Sjors

David 10th June 2008 01:51 PM

Well, IDing pamors was never my strong suit :o but it looks like it may be a variation of Ngulit Semangka (watermelon skin), though the way it is concentrated along the center might give it a different name. I have heard it suggested that this pamor might help ones standing in society.
The line on the gonjo looks like pamor kendit (belt) and is a protective pamor.
I am sure someone with better knowledge will come along with more specific info.
Very nice BTW. I like it. :)

Jussi M. 10th June 2008 02:01 PM

I have no clue of the pamor but must agree with David that it is a very nice looking keris :)

David 10th June 2008 02:18 PM

BTW Sjors, here's a pretty good quick on-line look at different pamors. Click on the catagories at the bottom of the page for more:
http://old.blades.free.fr/keris/int...wilah/pamor.htm

:)

sjors 10th June 2008 02:28 PM

Thank you very much, so far.
Nice you like the keris :)

Raden Usman Djogja 10th June 2008 04:08 PM

Sjors,

In general your keris' pamor is ngulit semongko. Perhaps, to be more specific, It could be called pamor of wahyu tumurun (goodluck-fall), too. The purpose?
In ancient believe, to get a certain position in social structure, somebody must get a divine-revelation/goodluck first. For instance to be a governor. Even there is someone who is smart, hardworking, courteous, prominent, handsome... in a simple word.. he has everything but WAHYU, he will not be chosen as governor if he run for that position. This believe is actually still exist in Indonesia nowadays.

In specific, perhaps your keris has 3 kind of pamors. The gonjo has pamor of maskumambang (floating gold). It is believe that the perpose of this pamor is to make the owner/master having ability to associate easily with anyone from all different social levels. The master will be mastery to associate with people either from lower, similiar or higher status.

In the bottom of blade, perhaps there is pamor of bawangsebungkul (onion-slece). The purpose of bawangsebungkul is to make its master's family lives peacefully in harmony.

The rest is either pamor of ngulit-semongko or wahyu tumurun.

Hope the information above is useful.

regards,

OeS

sjors 10th June 2008 08:02 PM

Dear Raden Usman Djogja
 
Dear Raden Usman Djogja,
Thank you very much for your elaborate answer; it's always nice to learn something new every new day! (and I allready know that I'll have some other questions very soon):)

ganjawulung 10th June 2008 09:23 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raden Usman Djogja
Sjors,

In general your keris' pamor is ngulit semongko. Perhaps, to be more specific, It could be called pamor of wahyu tumurun (goodluck-fall), too. The purpose?


Sjors,

It seems, "someone" is playing soccer... (I agree, its pamor is ngulit semangka, or ngulit semongko. And the keris' dhapur or model is "tilamupih"...)

PenangsangII 11th June 2008 03:36 AM

I thought I saw "ujung gunung" or "batu lapak-like pamor" at the sor-soran.

sjors 11th June 2008 05:49 AM

the SoccerKeris
 
Dear ganjawulung;

A "Dutch" keris with a soccerplayer on it... at the time of The European Soccer Championships... and we won our first game and our opponent was the ruling European Champion!
Do I need to say more??? ;)

And you probably know that most Dutch are totally mad about soccer :p

ganjawulung 11th June 2008 12:02 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by sjors
Dear ganjawulung;

A "Dutch" keris with a soccerplayer on it... at the time of The European Soccer Championships... and we won our first game and our opponent was the ruling European Champion!
Do I need to say more??? ;)

And you probably know that most Dutch are totally mad about soccer :p


Yes, I hope it is Ruud van Nistelrooy in your blade. Or maybe the other brilliant one, Wesley Sneijder. I like their way playing soccer, when they defeated "Azzuri" team of Italy 3-0 in their first match in European Championship this week... Or maybe your keris' name is Kanjeng Kiai Nistelrooy?

sjors 11th June 2008 05:01 PM

Off Topic, I know... (just dreaming)
 
Quote:
"Or maybe your keris' name is Kanjeng Kiai Nistelrooy"

Let's put it this way; if Coach Marco van Basten is interested in this keris, I have no problem to rename it in "Kanjeng Kiai van Basten"

(I always liked a house near the sea in the south of France or Bali, nice swimmingpool, my own golfcourt, own gardener...) :D

ganjawulung 12th June 2008 07:53 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by sjors
Let's put it this way; if Coach Marco van Basten is interested in this keris, I have no problem to rename it in "Kanjeng Kiai van Basten"

(I always liked a house near the sea in the south of France or Bali, nice swimmingpool, my own golfcourt, own gardener...) :D


Dear Sjors,

No matter what will be the result of Mr Marco van Basten's team in European Championship this time, at least you already have a keris with "raja gundhala" pamor. Unexpected pamor with figurative motif of human being...

Raden Usman Djogja 12th June 2008 01:02 PM

1 Attachment(s)
dear Sjors,

An old collector told me, "one ball in the rear-bottom of blade is very good. two balls are excellenct". He believed that those signs had a purpose.

regards,
OeS

sjors 12th June 2008 05:26 PM

Gentlemen,
I'm starting to believe there is something special in my house... :)
Your comments make me a happy man, not because I have the idea of "making money" by selling this keris ((every keris in my house is dear to me, so I hope I never have to be in the position that I am forced to sell anything, including one of the kerisses).
I realy appreciate your elaborate answers, so, to say it blunt, what do you think: is this more than a "ordinairy" (I hate that word) keris? Something collectors would like to have? (I'm not interested in any "money"value)

greetings, Sjors

David 12th June 2008 08:03 PM

Sjors, from the photos i would definitel say that it is a keris i would gladly add to my collection. :)
Is it more than ordinary? That is a rather difficult and subjective question IMO. I think it might be going too far to say that it is "extraordinary". To me it just looks like a good keris. It is well executed with a good and interesting pamor. But only you would know if there is "something special in your house." ;) :)

sjors 12th June 2008 09:20 PM

my "almost extraordinary" keris
 
Quote:
But only you would know if there is "something special in your house."

Thanks David, in my opinion from now on it's special, I mean if the specialists like it it's a special keris for me!
I'm glad this keris is one in my collection, It's there allready for 25 years and I'm sure it's gonna stay there for an other long time. :)


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