Ethnographic Arms & Armour

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-   Keris Warung Kopi (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=11)
-   -   Nice real old one from Bali (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=5348)

Dajak 13th October 2007 05:45 AM

Nice real old one from Bali
 
http://masterpieces.asemus.museum/i...ET=randomperday

A. G. Maisey 13th October 2007 08:43 PM

?????

Battara 14th October 2007 01:08 AM

Ummmm..........don't think the link works. :confused:

Dajak 14th October 2007 01:15 AM

http://masterpieces.asemus.museum/i...cal=en&p=search


put in indonesia by search and then Bali


Ben

David 14th October 2007 04:55 PM

Sorry Ben, this isn't working for me either. Can you provide a direct link? :shrug:

Henk 14th October 2007 07:34 PM

3 Attachment(s)
A direct link isn't possible. I copied the text and picked up the pictures.
I hope I don't brake any rules. If it turned out I did, moderators, please, do your job.

Kris
E 793

Object type: Other
Materials: Gold, rubies, diamonds, iron, nickle, wood
Measurements: Thickness: 5 cm.
Creator name: unknown
Where was it made: Indonesia; Bali
Time period: 19th Century
Function: Regalia. This State Kris was used in ceremonies to
ward off evil through the raksasa (giants) images on
the kris.
Acquisition: The kris came from Puri Klungkung, Bali. It was taken during a military expedition by the Colonial Government against the Klungkung Kingdom in 1908. The army took the regalia from the King and handed it to the government in Batavia. It was the rule that part of the booty from military expeditions would be given to the National Museum in Batavia and part of it was to be shipped to the Netherlands.
Owner: Museum Nasional

Why is this a masterpiece
The kris was not shipped to the Netherlands but instead remained in Indonesia. This gives it a specific historic value for the museum.

History of the object
The kris was part of the regalia of the Kingdom of Klungkung in Bali. It shows rakasa (giants) images, which is typically Balinese.

David 15th October 2007 03:12 AM

Is that a raksasa or is it Bayu?
Pretty dress with some nice stones. Too bad the pendok was damaged. Looks like nice gold work. It is a shame they don't show us the blade though. :(

Henk 15th October 2007 09:07 AM

David,

I think the hilt is Bayu. The text is from the museum itself and it says that the keris has pictures of raksasa on it. Probably in gold.

Indeed a shame they didn't make a picture of the blade which is actually the most interesting part of the piece.

Mick 15th October 2007 09:43 PM

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I believe that there is only one keris dressed I this manner in existence. It has been in the museum in Jakarta for years. It had been displayed as damaged until it was borrowed by Helen Jessup for a United Stated tour in 1990. It was repaired specifically for this tour. I believe that the photos in the referenced link show the back side of the dress.

Here is a photo of the piece as it was displayed. You can make out the Balinese Kala that is on the front.





There is a beautiful picture of the repaired piece on page 162 of Helen Jessup’s “Court Arts of Indonesia” which was published by the Asia Society Galleries, New York as a catalogue of the exhibition.

Of further interest there is a picture of a fine old painted Balinese sheath further along in the referenced link. These are possibly more rare than the golden covered pieces.

Battara 15th October 2007 11:54 PM

I agree that this is Battara ( :D ) Bayu. I have seen this documented in several books in the past. A real nice piece. Yes, shame I too have never seen the blade. Still thanks for the pictures.

David 16th October 2007 03:04 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick
There is a beautiful picture of the repaired piece on page 162 of Helen Jessup’s “Court Arts of Indonesia” which was published by the Asia Society Galleries, New York as a catalogue of the exhibition.

Thanks Mick. I knew i had seen this keris before. The picture in Jessup's book (like all the pics there) is indeed beautifully done and really shows just how exquisite this dress is. Unfortunately there is still no photo of the blade. :shrug:

A. G. Maisey 16th October 2007 03:45 AM

Here are a few pics of another gold Bali handle.

http://kerisattosanaji.com/Baligoldhandle.html

Jason Anstey 16th October 2007 06:24 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey
Here are a few pics of another gold Bali handle.

http://kerisattosanaji.com/Baligoldhandle.html


G'Day Alan

Wow!!! that is exquisite ! THe stones look of a particulary high quality based on my impression of their translucency? Please don't tell me they are pastes!!

Can you give us some details on the stones, the large light blue one looks like topaz, I assume that some of the others are lower grade (jewellery wise) sapphires and rubys??

Forgive my ignorance , but are the processes for gilding plateing of the gold?

Cheers mate

Jason

A. G. Maisey 16th October 2007 06:31 AM

G'day Jason, the stones are rubies, diamonds, black stars, and something else I'm not sure of.

This handle is gold, as in 22ct., not gilded or gold plated.

Probably dates from the early 20th century or late 19th century. Was in the possession of the Raja of Badung who passed away in the late 1980's.

Jason Anstey 16th October 2007 06:41 AM

blooody hell!

must weigh a fair bit.

Magnificent piece, thanks for sharing.

Cheers

Jason

A. G. Maisey 16th October 2007 08:03 AM

Jason, this sort of work, both in gold and in silver, is not cast, it is fabricated, then it is filled with wax and embossed with hammer and punches, when finished the wax is boiled out, and it is filled with resin.

Yes, it is fairly heavy, but the gold is probably no more than an eighth of an inch thick at its thickest part.

Don't thank only me, but thank the owner as well. I have his permission to show this piece.

Jason Anstey 16th October 2007 08:10 AM

Ahhh, me understand now.

By the way, what are the owners daily travelling movements? :D

Cheers

Jason

PS. You might recall I mentioned about my Fiance and our trip in Bali.

Well, we are expecting our first child late December!!!!!

drdavid 16th October 2007 08:20 AM

Dear Alan
could you explain the term 'black stars' please. Do you mean a dark sapphire or ruby with a star inclusion which show up when cabachon cut or is it something different?
cheers
DrD

David 16th October 2007 01:32 PM

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David, if it is the "black star" that i am familar with it would be diopside, a fairly inexpensive, though pretty, stone.

A. G. Maisey 16th October 2007 09:58 PM

Yeah, that's the stuff.

In fact, none of the stones in this handle are particularly valuable, there is a fair bit of gold in the handle, but the thing that sets it apart from other Balinese gold handles is the standard of workmanship:- three different authorities in this field of art have appraised it as the finest work in any gold Balinese handle that they have seen; I myself have never seen any better work. I believe it is probably one of the finest, if not the finest, Balinese keris hilt in existence.

Battara 17th October 2007 12:30 AM

thank you Alan for the explaination of the wax process involved and the pictures.

David 17th October 2007 02:02 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey
In fact, none of the stones in this handle are particularly valuable, there is a fair bit of gold in the handle, but the thing that sets it apart from other Balinese gold handles is the standard of workmanship:- three different authorities in this field of art have appraised it as the finest work in any gold Balinese handle that they have seen; I myself have never seen any better work. I believe it is probably one of the finest, if not the finest, Balinese keris hilt in existence.

Yes, i think i must agree. Of course i have never had the pleasure of examining anything of this quality in person as i am sure you have Alan. But if you look at the photo in Jessup's book the quality really shines through. If anyone doubts this i really recommend you find this book. Unfortunately the photos in this thread do not do it any justice.

A. G. Maisey 17th October 2007 02:23 AM

Yeah, the one shown in Jessup undoubtedly has much more value in the stones, and the workmanship in the handle (ie, ignoring the wrongko) is also excellent. I think you'd probably need the two handles, side by side, in the hand to make a judgement on which one has the superior workmanship. I know that I have never seen a handle of this type that is of as good quality workmanship as the one I posted pics of, and apparently neither had the three art authorities who appraised it. Actually, when you get into this area of quality, there are very few pieces with which to make comparison.

David 17th October 2007 01:28 PM

Sorry Alan, my bad....i thought you were referring to the one in Jessup that started this thread. I now realize that you meant the example that you linked to. Yeah, it would be a tough call to decide which one of these 2 hilts was actually the better one. I certainly couldn't choose based on the pictures alone. :)

A. G. Maisey 17th October 2007 09:14 PM

David, whenever we try to evaluate any really superior art work we are faced with this problem. It is not just the quality of the work, or the intrinsic value of the components, it is a certain intangible that only becomes apparent when we are actually face to face with the work in question.

Most often we don't even understand why one piece has a higher impact than the other.

So at this level it does not become just a matter of deciding which expression of art is superior to the other in terms of workmanship, technical excellence and intrinsic value, it becomes a matter of trying to understand which piece of art will have the deepest effect on the greatest number of people. Which piece will worm its way into the sub-conscious and strike a chord.

Seldom does the power and essence of great art make itself felt through a photograph.

Marcokeris 19th October 2007 12:56 PM

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Alan from your picture the handle seems to me a pretty gold handle with a very common subject with a face and body not so expressive (...of course from pictures). About the work's precision the pictures are not so accurate to understand the quality of work.
In my opinion is not gold or "lost wax" to determinate the "soul" of an object but it is the inner power that the artist is able to input in his work.
Of course is better to see a nice hilt made by uli emas, rhino horn, uli hijau, uli putith, amber, ecc... ecc...) than common material.

For example this my Rawana's brother Bali hit is made by a common poor material (like brass) with real poor stones (amethysts, onyx, moon and star stones) but, in my opinion, it (he) has a great expressive force not only in the face but also in the muscles of body.

A. G. Maisey 21st October 2007 12:22 PM

Marco, I beg your forgiveness, but I am afraid I am unable to understand exactly what you mean in your post commenting on the relative artistic qualities of the handle of which you have provided a photo, and the gold handle of which I posted some pictures.

I do not understand:- "--- uli emas, -------------, uli hijau, uli putith, ---"

I do not understand your comment:- "---In my opinion is not gold or "lost wax" to determinate the "soul" of an object---".

I cannot understand your comparison of the handles made by court goldsmiths to the Raja of Klungkung, and the Raja of Badung, with the recently made handle of some other material that has been made for the popular market, and of which you have provided a photo.

I freely admit that I may be a little stupid in my lack of understanding, but I would truly appreciate it if you could expand your comments in order to assist my understanding of just what it is that you trying to say.

Thank you for your consideration.

David 22nd October 2007 03:14 AM

2 Attachment(s)
Sorry Marco, i am afraid i share Alan's confusion. I am having a hard time putting your example in the same room as the other hilts being discussed here.
Here is another Bali gold hilt i find interesting from the Adrien Noe collection.

A. G. Maisey 22nd October 2007 03:39 AM

Goodness me.

That is seriously nice.

David 22nd October 2007 03:54 AM

4 Attachment(s)
Here's a few more angles. :)


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