Ethnographic Arms & Armour

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-   -   Old Dutch "Hembrug" Klewang (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=4250)

Bill M 12th March 2007 09:24 PM

Old Dutch "Hembrug" Klewang
 
7 Attachment(s)
The seller, Arjan, says, "The Klewang was designed for use in the tropical colonies. In the first wars with the natives many soldiers were suprised by the fierce Aceh warriors in close combat. "

"Sometimes the distance between the fighting parties was so close that it needed a better weapon than the usual sabre. The answer was the klewang."

"One hand on the carabine (carbine) and in the other the klewang was the common postion to resist the native warrior attacks."
This succeeded where the rifle and the bayonet were less successful.

"This klewang is one of them and is in a very good state. The scabbard is of nice polished dark brown leather. The blade is stamped "Hembrug". Hembrug Klewangs are quite rare because they are the first made examples."


This piece is also of interest to me as it was made for the Royal Netherlands East Indies Army (Koninklijk Nederlands Indisch Leger; KNIL). Formed by royal decree March 1830. This was the army of the Netherlands in its former colony of the Netherlands East Indies (also known as the Dutch East Indies, and later known as Indonesia).

KNIL was involved in many campaigns against indigenous groups in the Netherlands East Indies including the Padri War (1821-1845), the Java War (1825-1830), crushing the Puputan (the final resistance of Bali inhabitants to colonial rule), and the prolonged Aceh War (1873-1901).

Alan62 12th March 2007 09:52 PM

Very Nice !

ferrylaki 13th March 2007 03:24 AM

dutch klewang
 
5 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Marsh
The seller, Arjan, says, "The Klewang was designed for use in the tropical colonies. In the first wars with the natives many soldiers were suprised by the fierce Aceh warriors in close combat. "

"Sometimes the distance between the fighting parties was so close that it needed a better weapon than the usual sabre. The answer was the klewang."

"One hand on the carabine (carbine) and in the other the klewang was the common postion to resist the native warrior attacks."
This succeeded where the rifle and the bayonet were less successful.

"This klewang is one of them and is in a very good state. The scabbard is of nice polished dark brown leather. The blade is stamped "Hembrug". Hembrug Klewangs are quite rare because they are the first made examples."


This piece is also of interest to me as it was made for the Royal Netherlands East Indies Army (Koninklijk Nederlands Indisch Leger; KNIL). Formed by royal decree March 1830. This was the army of the Netherlands in its former colony of the Netherlands East Indies (also known as the Dutch East Indies, and later known as Indonesia).

KNIL was involved in many campaigns against indigenous groups in the Netherlands East Indies including the Padri War (1821-1845), the Java War (1825-1830), crushing the Puputan (the final resistance of Bali inhabitants to colonial rule), and the prolonged Aceh War (1873-1901).


very nice sword you have.
I also have a hembrug klewang, I never notice how old it is. The iron is much better than MILSCO klewang
but there is several difference with yours. there is 'R' mark, the hand guard, there is a small 'curve' on the tip.
the hand guard seem a little different. have a look please.

Ian 13th March 2007 05:01 AM

These are interesting swords
 
We had an interesting discussion of the Dutch klewang a while back -- here: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1132

I have one similar to your's, Bill, with a similar sheath. Mine is not marked, however. :(

Ian.

kronckew 13th March 2007 03:34 PM

i have one made in solingen,

the design gets around alot. apparently the dutch General Van Heutsz who commissioned the first ones had some made in germany as well as his local supplier couldn't make them fast enough....






i have seen references to the japanese issuing captured indonesian ones to their own forces. mine was supposedly captured from a german e-boat in ww2, i aquired it in the late 80's, so we have the dutch/germans/USA/japenese and who knows who else all using exactly the same design. cold steel makes a modern replica also.


AHA! - we also had a discussion HERE which was a bit off topic.HERE
starting about post no. 16

there is a linky in my last post there to a thread by paul hansen, his 2nd post down is very informative (and indicates my solingen one was probably the earliest version) thread by paul hansen

extract from that thread:

In the Aceh (northern Sumatra, Indonesia) war (end 19th, early 20th C.) the Dutch colonial troops were fighting a losing battle against effective guerilla fighters.

A new commander, General Van Heutsz, arrived and ordered the formation of small "companies" (so-called Marechaussee (Military Police) brigades) armed with short sabres of a mixed European-Indonesian design. This design was named Marechaussee Klewang. Early versions featured a Sumatran Klewang blade (straight or very slightly curved, with very wide tip), but eventually those were replaced by a more European clippoint blade. Production also shifted to Europe. First to Solingen, then to the Netherlands (Hembrug).

Van Heutsz' tactics were ruthless but highly effective. The same classification could be used for the Klewang: ruthless but highly effective in jungle warfare.

Apparently someone high in the US Navy was impressed and ordered a somewhat similar sword (but without the cut-out guard) in the US. This is the M1917.

Just before the war, the Royal Netherlands Indies Army (KNIL) wanted to purchase a very large amount of Klewangs. They were ordered in the Netherlands, but the Netherlands were overrun by the Germans before they could be delivered.

As ordering in Germany wasn't an option, the KNIL turned to US manufacturers. The US company Milsco got a contract for a large number of klewangs. Before they could all be delivered, the Dutch East Indies were also overrun. Without a paying customer, the US military took a lot of these swords into service as M1941. They did serve in the US army and marine corps, but perhaps not as an official item.

After WW2, many of the unissued Milso klewangs were bought by the Dutch government and used in the "policing actions" in Indonesia in the late 40's. Others found their way to the collectors market in new condition.

The definitive book on the subject is "Klewang" by J.P. Puype & R.J. de Stürler Boekwijt. Highly recommended!

Henk 13th March 2007 09:38 PM

You got yourself a Dutchie.

ferrylaki 14th March 2007 07:56 AM

the age of hembrug klewang
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kronckew
i have one made in solingen,

the design gets around alot. apparently the dutch General Van Heutsz who commissioned the first ones had some made in germany as well as his local supplier couldn't make them fast enough....






i have seen references to the japanese issuing captured indonesian ones to their own forces. mine was supposedly captured from a german e-boat in ww2, i aquired it in the late 80's, so we have the dutch/germans/USA/japenese and who knows who else all using exactly the same design. cold steel makes a modern replica also.


AHA! - we also had a discussion HERE which was a bit off topic.HERE
starting about post no. 16

there is a linky in my last post there to a thread by paul hansen, his 2nd post down is very informative (and indicates my solingen one was probably the earliest version) thread by paul hansen

extract from that thread:

In the Aceh (northern Sumatra, Indonesia) war (end 19th, early 20th C.) the Dutch colonial troops were fighting a losing battle against effective guerilla fighters.

A new commander, General Van Heutsz, arrived and ordered the formation of small "companies" (so-called Marechaussee (Military Police) brigades) armed with short sabres of a mixed European-Indonesian design. This design was named Marechaussee Klewang. Early versions featured a Sumatran Klewang blade (straight or very slightly curved, with very wide tip), but eventually those were replaced by a more European clippoint blade. Production also shifted to Europe. First to Solingen, then to the Netherlands (Hembrug).

Van Heutsz' tactics were ruthless but highly effective. The same classification could be used for the Klewang: ruthless but highly effective in jungle warfare.

Apparently someone high in the US Navy was impressed and ordered a somewhat similar sword (but without the cut-out guard) in the US. This is the M1917.

Just before the war, the Royal Netherlands Indies Army (KNIL) wanted to purchase a very large amount of Klewangs. They were ordered in the Netherlands, but the Netherlands were overrun by the Germans before they could be delivered.

As ordering in Germany wasn't an option, the KNIL turned to US manufacturers. The US company Milsco got a contract for a large number of klewangs. Before they could all be delivered, the Dutch East Indies were also overrun. Without a paying customer, the US military took a lot of these swords into service as M1941. They did serve in the US army and marine corps, but perhaps not as an official item.

After WW2, many of the unissued Milso klewangs were bought by the Dutch government and used in the "policing actions" in Indonesia in the late 40's. Others found their way to the collectors market in new condition.

The definitive book on the subject is "Klewang" by J.P. Puype & R.J. de Stürler Boekwijt. Highly recommended!


the estimated age of the hembrug klewang .....
any body know how old is the klewang?

Jim McDougall 7th October 2007 03:38 AM

This thread was fascinating to read, the history of military klewangs, beautifully recounted by Kronckew in his post with outstanding contributions and illustrations by Ferylaki and Bill Marsh.

In the last words of the post, the question on the age of the klewang was well placed, but no response was ever made. It would be interesting to know more on the history of the klewang that led to these military versions.

Can anyone note earliest known examples and history of the klewang in development?

Dajak 7th October 2007 09:01 AM

The hembrug is made till 1940


Ben

Dajak 7th October 2007 09:13 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Marsh
The seller, Arjan, says, "The Klewang was designed for use in the tropical colonies. In the first wars with the natives many soldiers were suprised by the fierce Aceh warriors in close combat. "

"Sometimes the distance between the fighting parties was so close that it needed a better weapon than the usual sabre. The answer was the klewang."

"One hand on the carabine (carbine) and in the other the klewang was the common postion to resist the native warrior attacks."
This succeeded where the rifle and the bayonet were less successful.

"This klewang is one of them and is in a very good state. The scabbard is of nice polished dark brown leather. The blade is stamped "Hembrug". Hembrug Klewangs are quite rare because they are the first made examples."


This piece is also of interest to me as it was made for the Royal Netherlands East Indies Army (Koninklijk Nederlands Indisch Leger; KNIL). Formed by royal decree March 1830. This was the army of the Netherlands in its former colony of the Netherlands East Indies (also known as the Dutch East Indies, and later known as Indonesia).

KNIL was involved in many campaigns against indigenous groups in the Netherlands East Indies including the Padri War (1821-1845), the Java War (1825-1830), crushing the Puputan (the final resistance of Bali inhabitants to colonial rule), and the prolonged Aceh War (1873-1901).





In 1898 first militairy weapon came in use as marchausse sabel not before


Ben

Bill M 7th October 2007 11:09 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dajak
In 1898 first militairy weapon came in use as marchausse sabel not before


Ben


Hi Ben,

I believe you mean the Marechaussee Sabel? I would like to know more. Are there any online sources?

The information I quoted on the KNIL comes from

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KNIL

"As such, KNIL was involved in many campaigns against indigenous groups in the Netherlands East Indies including the Padri War (1821-1845), the Java War (1825-1830), crushing the Puputan (the final resistance of Bali inhabitants to colonial rule) of 1849, and the prolonged Aceh War (1873-1904)."

And

http://www.awm.gov.au/alliesinadver...panese/army.asp

But there may be more pertinent information on the Marechaussee Sabel, if you would be so kind as to supply?

kronckew 7th October 2007 12:05 PM

the dutch royal guard's variation, the Koninklijke Marechaussee

has a different grip and scabbard.


Koninklijke Marechaussee sabel

(from this linky)

there are two of these variants up on ebay at the moment.

Dajak 7th October 2007 12:26 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Marsh
Hi Ben,

I believe you mean the Marechaussee Sabel? I would like to know more. Are there any online sources?

The information I quoted on the KNIL comes from

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KNIL

"As such, KNIL was involved in many campaigns against indigenous groups in the Netherlands East Indies including the Padri War (1821-1845), the Java War (1825-1830), crushing the Puputan (the final resistance of Bali inhabitants to colonial rule) of 1849, and the prolonged Aceh War (1873-1904)."

And

http://www.awm.gov.au/alliesinadver...panese/army.asp

But there may be more pertinent information on the Marechaussee Sabel, if you would be so kind as to supply?


Hi Bill it is in Dutch
The klewang is the indonesian term off this marchaussee sabel later they called this klewang
Marchausse sabel is the offical dutch term

In 1898 it was first in use with the KNIL not before

Ben


the last link says of yours The Klewang is a type of cutlass which originally derived from the weapons traditionally carried by Indonesian natives, and was later adopted by soldiers of the Dutch East India Company (the Vereenigde Oostindische Compagnie or VOC). By the 1930s, it was carried as a sidearm by native police in the NEI. Some were used in combat against the Japanese, but they were more commonly employed as machetes against jungle foliage. The Klewang remained on issue to Dutch forces after the war, and was used during actions against Indonesian rebels as late as 1947–48.
RELAWM24941

Bill M 7th October 2007 12:30 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dajak
Hi Bill it is in Dutch
The klewang is the indonesian term off this marchaussee sabel later they called this klewang
Marchausse sabel is the offical dutch term

In 1898 it was first in use with the KNIL not before

Ben



Thank you Ben, I have translation utiilities that can render Dutch into English. I am not trying to be difficult, just to broaden my horizons. Link?

Dajak 7th October 2007 12:41 PM

http://collectie.legermuseum.nl/sit...20k lewang.pdf


this link says that knil people did take indonesian klewangs



this one that they take the model you have

http://www.collectie.legermuseum.nl...sseesab el.pdf


Hope you like it Bill let me now if you like to see more

Ben

Dajak 7th October 2007 12:46 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by kronckew
the dutch royal guard's variation, the Koninklijke Marechaussee

has a different grip and scabbard.


Koninklijke Marechaussee sabel

(from this linky)

there are two of these variants up on ebay at the moment.


This version is earlyer and was to long to fight in the jungle it is and used more at an Gala

later they wanna have the leather sheet better in the jungle can be read at the second link

Ben

Ben

spiral 7th October 2007 01:13 PM

mmmmm they our nice Ive had a couple that were shortened & reground by the Japanese in ww2 for machete use & prison guard use.

The Best machete ever by quality probably!

Never had the full length one.

These were as Dajak says Definatly first issued in 1898 according to Netherlands Army Museum curater in Delft who wrote the book about the 140 variations they have in thier collection.

This website does English....

museum linky...

Spiral

Dajak 7th October 2007 02:06 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Here on this picture can be seen that the first division Marchausse Used Atjeh weapons like rentjong

Dajak 7th October 2007 02:07 PM

6 Attachment(s)
Some more pics

Jim McDougall 7th October 2007 06:41 PM

Great responses on these most interesting military swords guys!!! Thank you!!!
Didn't the U.S. Navy also copy these in thier cutlasses of about 1917?

I'm would still like to know more on the ethnographic weapon known as the klewang, where exactly were they used, and examples of the actual weapon form as used tribally. Were these military weapons modelled after them in design or simply using the term?

Dajak 7th October 2007 06:44 PM

These dutch weapons are not made after the Atjeh weapons but european design it was only the term klewang that they used


Ben

Jim McDougall 7th October 2007 10:13 PM

Thanks for the input on that Ben, that makes sense that the term was used. As always when considering terminology it would seem that the klewang term, being a relatively universal term describing various forms throughout Indonesia, Malaysia and the Philippines, was likely adopted colloquially to refer to 'sword'.
While the distinct clipped point on the military version blades associate with European sabre points, the blade root seems to correspond to some of the blade forms in the 'klewang' groups (the Philippine bolo type swords for example). Obviously the basket hilt has absolutely nothing to do with the native weapons.
With that I would imagine my thoughts on trying to establish connection between native sword form and the military examples is moot. Since this particular field of study is a bit foreign :) to me, just establishing facts to learn more on them.

Dajak 8th October 2007 03:18 AM

Hi Jim the 2 links that I put on explain why they put the klewang to the militairy equipment .

they where using before the Indonesian klewang and rentjong as can be see
on the pics


Ben

Bill M 8th October 2007 05:38 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dajak
http://collectie.legermuseum.nl/sit...20k lewang.pdf


this link says that knil people did take indonesian klewangs



this one that they take the model you have

http://www.collectie.legermuseum.nl...sseesab el.pdf


Hope you like it Bill let me now if you like to see more

Ben



Thank you Ben, this is very helpful!

asomotif 8th October 2007 07:55 AM

Ps. recently saw a nice indonesian made example on ebay that was marked "HUMBREG" omn the blade :D :D :D

Bill M 8th October 2007 11:59 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dajak
These dutch weapons are not made after the Atjeh weapons but european design it was only the term klewang that they used


Ben


As you stated above, from your first article the author draws this conclusion, that the decisions was made to "fight the Atjeh with his own weapons" but the design of the "gliwang" or klewang used by the Dutch borrowed elements of the Sosun Patah and even the knopis, and was considered a new design based on European models.

A lot of focus was placed on the development of the guard (gevest) for better hand protection, as a development and improvement of the Aceh klewang which lacked the guard used by the Dutch infantry.

There was also development of the scabbard or sleeve. Originally steel but these were "heavy and had to suffer of the wet tropics climate. Hence that there votes went up the steel sleeves to let replace by lederen (leather); these.. . do not shine. They do not clatter. They do not rust. "


The second article further elucidates
development of the military klewang by J.P. Puype and R.J. the Stürler Boekwijt [ 1 ] under the ' military klewang ' understand we in the first place the so-called Marechausseesabel introduced in 1898, by the Dutch-Dutch-Indian army (KNIL)

I was also educated by the understanding of the need for "mechanized production in arms manufacture could insure the desired uniformity, i.e. equality of composition and quality of steel, but also in use, exercise, maintenance and at the latest. Also the fact that Atjehse edged weapons were seldom kept in sleeves, yet bares traditionally and in the hand was carried, was impractically and also with regard to unacceptable for a soldier."

Uniformity of manufacture through mechanized production meant that scabbards could be more interchangeable is one was damaged. Certainly the interchangeability of parts was a huge benefit of any mechanized production.

Though I might parenthetically add that this, mechanized production, could also slightly impinge on the definition of these klewangs as Ethnographic weapons on this Forum, :rolleyes: however I shall "forge" ahead. :D

Reference is also made to the production of weapons in Tikeroeh and I can see some similarities with the golok blades, wide fullers, etc, posted earlier by myself and others though this may be merely a parallel evolution.

Marechausseesabel (or sabel military police) was developed and perfected (as Ben has earlier stated) between 1898 and 1905. Further developments occurred, until 1940.

And Ben, I thank you again for your good information regarding these interesting swords. There is a great deal more in the second article about further developments.

I must learn Dutch!

Dajak 8th October 2007 02:13 PM

Hi Bill if you collect Indonesian it is almost an must :D :D :D


Just mail me Bill if you need more information on an subject .


Ben

h0mp 27th July 2008 04:06 PM

The standard issue of the Sabel Marechaussee (klewang) was first introduced in 1898. However the Korps Marechaussee was formed in 1890 as a contra guerilla unit. A brigade consisted out of a dutch sergeant. The rest (15-19 men) were natives from all around indonesia except Aceh ofcourse.
Regulations where that besides standard weapons the native troops were allowed to carry a klewang and keris of choice. In practise this almost always resulted in the men carrying acehnese swords and daggers.
They also customized military sabres or fitted native blades to military hilts.
Later they started to order custom made blades from java.
This happened untill 1898 when the standard military klewang was issued and was produced to certain specifications. Still the native troops immediately started to grind down and customize their newly given weapons to fit their personal wishes. They were more skilled and effective with the klewang than the dutch men.

Anyway, your klewang is a dutch made M1911. Produced between 1911 and 1940 or something. Your scabbard however is made in 1931/1932. But the combination of these two is not unusual.

All MILSCO klewangs are post WW2.

The M1911 probably was the model for the Naval Cutlass M1917. Most likely manufacturers from Solingen Germany came up with the blue prints.

I have an M1941 MILSCO klewang and an M1912 Solingen klewang.
The M1912 was made for the dutch national army and not for the kolonial forces. The design is the same as M1911. However, my M1912 came with a 1931/1932 colonial scabbard. How this combination came to be is unknown to me.


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