Pair of kris/ keris , bugis ?
 

HI Any info on these would be appreciated , picked them up recently together at a local antique fair ,
Any information on region age etc would be appreciated,
I believe they are called a bugis kris

Hello Tom,

The smaller keris is a keris from Selangor or Johor by the scabbard and hilt style IMHO! :)
The bigger one is a little bit more tricky, I will let it to Gustav to place this one! ;):D

Regards,
Detlef

We are looking at two keris, each keris is comprised of a number of components, and each keris would fall into the broad church of the Bugis keris.

When a keris is classified as "Bugis" it is classified in accordance with cultural indicators, where within the Bugis world these two keris might have originated becomes a sub-classification, & one that I decided long ago not to try too hard to take much interest in.

I have a number of reasons for this lack of interest, & it is rooted in the overall lack of unified opinions. Collectors outside of culture seem to have developed their own system of classification, and even then there appears to be variation in opinions, whilst collectors within Bugis culture seem to have a more, let us say, elastic system of classification according to which just about every keris with a trace of Bugis influence is classified as South Sulawesi.

In my opinion, the two keris we are looking at are properly classified as Bugis, and would most certainly be so classified as this by any keris literate person whom I know in Indonesia.

However, the sub-classification of geographic point of origin is something I will leave to the opinions of others.

One of these subject keris has a 3 luk blade, this blade may or may not be of Bugis origin, I cannot determine if it has the required hexagon form, overall it does look Bugis, but I would like to see the hexagon.

The long thin keris must be counted as 9 luk by current convention, & I cannot see anything even close to Bugis in that blade. I cannot give a supportable opinion on origin of this 9 luk blade.

The 3 Luk Keris combines characteristics from Perak and Kelantan. As they are neighboring states that shouldn't be an anomaly.

The 9 Luk Keris blade is tricky. Dress - sheath is distinctly South Sulawesi, the hilt from the islands south of Sulawesi, Selayar. There are similar hilt forms with a "bridge" on Sumbawa and Sumatra, but this could be from Selayar indeed.

Blade seems like an Pasisir or East Java inspired form, if not from there. The Pesi is longer then usual South Sulawesi Bugis, see the long necked Selut and the quite upright hilt. The Gonjo would be unusual for Pasisir or East Java.

Both Keris are very nice, the Peninsular one especially.

Would be interesting to see more and better pictures of the 9 Luk blade.

The Blade except Gonjo looks like East Java? Tlamaan seems to be absolutely straight - but we need better pictures.

More pics
 

Hi Gustav thanks for you reply and information , here are a few more pictures hopefully they can help ,thanks ,Tom

Thanks for taking your time to explain your opinion its much appreciated ,im a total novice in this area and not sure what the hexagon area is ? thanks Tom

Tom, thank you for the pictures.

I might consider the possibility the Bugis style Gonjo is an old replacement. The blade itself looks East Javanese to me, with Pamor Ujung Gunung or Jungjung Derajat.

I agree Gustav, I reckon that 9 luk blade has had the gonjo replaced with a Bugisy one.

At first glance I also thought East Jawa origin for this, but the more I looked the more I doubted it, presently I'm not prepared to even tentatively nominate any area of origin for that 9 luk blade.

Tom, by "hexagon" I am referring to the cross section of the blade, if Bugis it should have quite distinct flat faces with a rather abrupt decline to the cutting edge, this form provides 6 sides to the blade.

Alan, what are your main points against East Java origin?

I simply cannot see enough Gustav, & I try my best to avoid guessing, because too many people take one of my guesses as an opinion, & I ordinarily do not give opinions unless I can can support those opinions.

It is difficult enough to try to classify keris from photos on a screen, in a photo about all we have is an outline, which because of camera position is often not real accurate. We cannot rely on the colour that we see, we cannot feel the material, we cannot feel the perceived weight & balance, there is absolutely no feedback from the keris itself.

In a determination of blade origin, the gonjo plays a very, very important role. The gonjo on this keris has been replaced, so it is useless to request an image of the top of the gonjo. Trying to classify this keris is similar to trying to read an official document that has been redacted:- we can see a little bit of the text, but not nearly enough to make sense of what it means.

Even when I do give an opinion from a screen image I more often than not will qualify that opinion.

You might say I'm a bit risk averse.

Alan, thank you, I understand.