Ethnographic Arms & Armour

Ethnographic Arms & Armour (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/index.php)
-   Ethnographic Weapons (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=2)
-   -   william rodgers silver mounted dagger for discussion (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=23092)

chiefheadknocker 3rd September 2017 03:13 PM

william rodgers silver mounted dagger for discussion
 
4 Attachment(s)
this is a William Rodgers blade but in I'm not sure if the handle and mounts are original ,the blade fits into the sheath very nicely , but I'm noe expert and any info and comment will be much appretiated
thanks

Will M 3rd September 2017 03:58 PM

Very nice find, I'm sure all of it is original, many of this type had similar grips etc.

chiefheadknocker 3rd September 2017 04:32 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Will M
Very nice find, I'm sure all of it is original, many of this type had similar grips etc.

thanks for you reply , after researching his name all I could see was bowie type knives and made me wonder if this has had a different handle , also the end of the scabbard is open ,should this also have a silver mount ?
thanks

Richard G 3rd September 2017 05:53 PM

If the mounts are English silver they should be hall-marked.
Regards
Richard

Kmaddock 3rd September 2017 06:18 PM

Nice knife
Rodgers also made the British special forces commando knives after WWII
the blade shape is quiet similar
Google
Fairbairn-Sykes Rodgers knife

and you will find similar blades, guard is also similar

I had one of the commando knives stamped by Rodgers on the cross guard but sold a long time ago

The blade on your knife is like the First pattern Fairbairn-Sykes knife
But I think Rodgers only made the third pattern knife

Commando knives are a bit outside the remit of the forum so I will stop here. 😀

Regards

Ken

chiefheadknocker 3rd September 2017 06:20 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard G
If the mounts are English silver they should be hall-marked.
Regards
Richard

hi there, I cant see any hallmarks , but I thinks they are solid silver because there is no sign of silver plate wearing through , maybe its is silver plated that hasn't worn through yet ,would silver plate have any marks ?
thanks for your input

Ibrahiim al Balooshi 3rd September 2017 06:29 PM

You might notice how similar this dagger is to the WW2 pattern Fairburn Sykes Commando Dagger . For this reason it is interesting to read https://www.sheffieldcollectablekni...-commando-knife
which has plenty of pre 1900 detail attached to it. Who would carry such a knife ... they look dangerous to me? :shrug: although I did hear of one Commando climber who used these as piton devices and when doing ice wall work. :shrug:

thinreadline 4th September 2017 10:29 PM

I am 99% sure this is a 1950s Rodgers blade which has been remounted and also refitted with this scabbard. This pattern of blade is claimed by some to have come into existence during WW2 but so far I have seen no prime source evidence of this , but am keen to be shown some. The fittings do not look British to me and I feel this is a 'marriage' .... not to deceive but perhaps more likely to appeal to 'Mediterranean' or similar tastes .
William Rodgers name appears on English knives of the 20th century with the I CUT MY WAY trademark ... but in the 19th century W Rodgers is more associated with spring , tool and balance manufacture . I believe the firm ceased to trade in the early 20th century and the name and trademark was taken up by the cutlers Clarke of SHEFFIELD. The famous 19th century maker of high quality bowie and hunting knives was the unrelated Sheffield firm of JOSEPH RODGERS.

kronckew 5th September 2017 06:37 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefheadknocker
hi there, I cant see any hallmarks , but I thinks they are solid silver because there is no sign of silver plate wearing through , maybe its is silver plated that hasn't worn through yet ,would silver plate have any marks ?
thanks for your input


real solid english 'sterling' silver will have hallmarks. plate may, but is not required. they do appear on most tho, as it implies a higher quality manufacture.

how to read english silver plate marks: http://www.silvercollection.it/dict...platemarks.html

of course if it doesn't have any, you can't use that. ;) might be silver plate, might not. might be 'german' silver, or alpaca, with no 'Ag' at all.

if it's silver, a drop of egg yolk on it will leave a black spot fairly quickly, the more silver purity, the quicker the spot develops.

Will M 6th September 2017 12:13 AM

Quite possible it is silver plate. Easy to tell if you file a small spot where you won't notice it.
As for the blade it looks original. Double sided blades are common many centuries before Fairbairn Sykes made their dagger.

thinreadline 6th September 2017 07:42 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Will M
Very nice find, I'm sure all of it is original, many of this type had similar grips etc.


true but not with a William Rodgers blade ?

thinreadline 6th September 2017 07:51 AM

3 Attachment(s)
this may even be a 1950s Wm Rodgers blade with the additional enhancement of 19th C cutlery fittings .... I illustrate here 2 grips , one from this knife , one from another knife on this site which many of us believe is definitely a marriage between older grip and newer knife , and for reference , a Victorian cutlery set of the type that is often cannibalised to make this hybrids. This is course is a theory offered by me in this particular instance, though my experience is that it commonly occurs .

chiefheadknocker 8th September 2017 08:27 PM

thanks for all your input
 
After looking closely I think for sure the handle and scabbard have been added later to the blade , for one the handle is very slightly off centre to the blade and the blade is too short for the scabbard , plus the pommel has very close resemblance to some cutlery as shown , well thanks for everyones input :)

Ibrahiim al Balooshi 13th September 2017 01:32 PM

See also http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=15133 for the famous and well respected Joseph Rodgers butter knife converted to Omani Work Knives ...


All times are GMT. The time now is 08:10 PM.

Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.