Ethnographic Arms & Armour

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-   -   First post (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=22176)

Spaffo 17th December 2016 06:10 AM

First post
 
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I've been lurking for awhile and have really learned a lot. Finally joined and hope to learn more about my small collection.
The 1st knife is one of my favorites, but I don't know it's country of origin. It has a wire wrap and metal cap hilt and a scabbard covered in some kind of skin.
The 2nd I know even less about.
Any information is greatly appreciated.

Spaffo 17th December 2016 07:34 PM

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Here are 4 more. Are the top 2 Afghan? I'm assuming the bottom 2 are from the Philippines. Thanks

Athanase 17th December 2016 08:53 PM

Hello,

For the first Knife : it comes from Buthan or Tibet
For the second : I don't know :shrug:

VANDOO 17th December 2016 09:41 PM

WELCOME TO THE FORUM :D I AGREE WITH THE IDENTIFICATION OF THE FIRST KNIFE AND IT DOES FIT IN THE TRADITIONAL ETHNOGRAPHIC FIELD EVEN IF ITS IS NOT AN ANCIENT EXAMPLE OF THE TYPE.
THE SECOND ONE IS A DAGGER BUT FITS INTO THE FANTASY FIELD OF WEAPONRY AND IS FAIRLY RECENT. WHEN YOU CONSIDER HOW OLD SOME MOVIES ARE NOW THEY STILL CAN HAVE SOME AGE AND ARE COLLECTIBLE IN THE FANTASY EDGED WEAPONS FIELD. I DON'T KNOW IF THERE IS A FORUM FOR FANTASY.
THERE ARE OLDER MOVIES WITH EDGED WEAPONS BUT CONSIDER CONAN THE BARBARIAN AND RAMBO BOTH CAME OUT IN 1982 THAT'S 34 YEARS AGO. SO THE ORIGINAL CONAN SWORD AND RAMBO KNIFE THAT WERE SOLD ARE GETTING SOME AGE TO THEM. SEEMS LIKE YESTERDAY TO ME DOES THAT MEAN I'M GETTING OLD. :D

Spaffo 18th December 2016 04:49 AM

4 Attachment(s)
Here are a couple more, all from the Philippines, I think. I would like to know what part of the PI they are from.
The 1st one is easy to date. It has an incised aluminum handle with "Philippine Republic 1946".

Tim Simmons 18th December 2016 05:16 PM

Good point even fantasy genre is a cultural art form, and in time will be an area for reflection in the future. Still not my thing

kronckew 18th December 2016 06:02 PM

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the skull dagger:i personally would sell it on ebay and get a few $ (or ) and forget it. there are people who like those. not too many here tho. it's fopr display on a wall, not for actual use as a tool or weapon.

the two afghani knives are frequently called 'khyber knives' in relation to their use near tyhe khyber pass area or sometimes the longer are salawar or salawar yataghans (they are not yats in the turkish sense) the 'T' spine may have a very slight recurve (S) profile in the yatty ones. they generally come in a leather covered wood scabbard and the grip is recessed into the top section of the scabbard. they may have a metal chape on the tip.

the last two are traditional filipino sword forms. (i like the one with the 'D' guard.) variations are endless, and all have different type names. they look a bit like a pinute (top) and a garab (bottom), but may be variants of another named type. they generally come in wood scabbards.

the nice bhutan knife/short sword is another traditional form found in bhutan and bordering areas of tibet, tribal boundaries there are blurred a bit :). the smaller knives are sometimes called 'dossum' and the swords 'patang' in bhutan. the bhutanese ones frequently have a dragon motif embossed on the scabbards, as does their national flag. tibetan ones can have fancy scabbards like mine, but tend to be plainer from ones i've seen, like yours. the lobed wire wound grip is diagnostic. mine is below. i include a photo of the king of bhutan in traditional dress. the patang is worn on the RIGHT side, like a legionnary gladius, and drawn with the right hand in bayonet style. the national sport is archery, so i'm assuming it's there so it doesn't get in the way of a bow. doubt the king needs worry much about that tho.

Spaffo 18th December 2016 09:13 PM

Thanks for the great information. The level of expertise on this forum is amazing. I got these knives and others in the mid 1990s from the estate of an old-time gun dealer. He had a lot of everything that I'm still learning things about.
-Bryce

Sajen 18th December 2016 09:30 PM

Hello Spaffo,

the two swords in down in post #2 are correct identified from Kronckew as Philippine swords, the upper one is from Luzon, turn of the centuries, you could call it matulis or itak.
The other one is IMHO a Bicol sword, other may say Visayan but I vote for the first choice. Nice pieces but the blades seems to be very badly cleaned! :) Oh, and forget, welcome to the forum! :)

Regards,
Detlef

Sajen 19th December 2016 05:20 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spaffo
Here are a couple more, all from the Philippines, I think. I would like to know what part of the PI they are from.
The 1st one is easy to date. It has an incised aluminum handle with "Philippine Republic 1946".


The first is from Luzon, an early "tourist" knife IMVHO.
Second is a talibon from the Visayas, scabbard look more as one from a Black Sea yathagan. :shrug: How long is the blade? Difficult to say how old but clearly used, wild guess first half of 20th century.
Third isn't from the Philippines, it's mainland SEA, Laos, North Thailand or Burma, maybe others can tell you more. It's a small dha hmyaung, I would prefer to call it enep (knife), what is the stuff on the scabbard?
Last is again a talibon, from around 1940. See here for a quite informative thread: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showt...ghlight=talibon

Regards,
Detlef

Sajen 19th December 2016 05:23 PM

BTW, the Bhutan dagger is nice, would be interesting to know if the blade is laminated.

Spaffo 19th December 2016 05:31 PM

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Thanks Detlef,
The 2nd one's blade is approx 10". Forgot the ruler. There is a piece of very old tape on the scabbard of #3.
Here is one more. Gunong? Thanks again for the valuable information.
Bryce

Sajen 19th December 2016 05:32 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by kronckew
it's fopr display on a wall, not for actual use as a tool or weapon.


I don't want to have it on my wall! :p

Spaffo 19th December 2016 08:06 PM

Here is a cropped view of the Bhutan blade. Sorry for the poor quality, I don't have the knife here to reshoot.

Spaffo 19th December 2016 09:36 PM

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Didn't post. I'll try again.

kronckew 20th December 2016 07:02 AM

4 Attachment(s)
looks like you would need to etch the bhutanese knife blade to see if it were laminated - etching shows the laminations a lot better. search the forum for info on etching with vinegar...the knife shows signs that it is.

the knife in post 12 doesn't look filipino, more greek/ottoman to me. is the pommel end v-grooved like the contemporary cretan hunting knife with the olive wood grip i have, below?

p.s. - the dha-ish knife (dha also just means knife & they come in all sizes up to and including the more usual swords) looks more like a rattan splitting knife. never seen a dha that small that curved. there is always a first tho. ;) all my small dhas are fairly straight. see below for the small, medium and large dhas

finally, the more usual thai enep shape. this one is fairly large. thai version of a khukuri :).

iskender 20th December 2016 05:41 PM

dolchbajonett mod 18
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spaffo
I've been lurking for awhile and have really learned a lot. Finally joined and hope to learn more about my small collection.
The 1st knife is one of my favorites, but I don't know it's country of origin. It has a wire wrap and metal cap hilt and a scabbard covered in some kind of skin.
The 2nd I know even less about.
Any information is greatly appreciated.

hello spaffo, if the lenght of your fantasy-dagger is around 300mm you have a good chance the blade is from a swiss bajonett mod. 18 . just a idea of mine! best regards iskender

Spaffo 20th December 2016 06:33 PM

Thanks Kronckew and Iskender,
Post 12 knife has a full tang but no grooved pommel. I don't have them here to check.
Nice catch by Iskender on the fantasy piece. The blade is almost identical to my M1918 Schimdt-Ruben K31 bayonet.
Thanks all
Bryce


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