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Jean-Marc S. 26th April 2012 05:48 PM

Markings on wheellock pistol, ca. 1630-40
6 Attachment(s)

Please, what do you think of this wheellock pistol, ca; 1630-40 ?
Do you think it is good ?



Matchlock 26th April 2012 07:37 PM

Hi Jean-Marc,

This is a characteristic Late-Thirty Years War 'military' wheellock saddle pistol of Netherlandish type, the rounded lock plate with beveled edges denoting that it should be assigned to the second half of the 1640's-1650.

Provided that the ramrod is the original its iron finial may be threaded for a worm and scourer for cleaning the barrel.

I cannot make out the barrel marks but their general rectangular shape, most probably struck containing capital letters, is also typical of the Netherlands. Good close-ups (!) provided, I could probably tell you more.


Jean-Marc S. 26th April 2012 09:14 PM

Thanks Michael. Could it be actually a German military pistol, as stated by the original owner ?
Barrel markings are 'BP' and 'BV'

Are all parts original 17th century (from the pics) ? :confused:


Matchlock 26th April 2012 09:55 PM

I am not Superman, J.-M.,

Meaning that I do not have anything like 'Rontgen' power.

In order to try and qualifiedly answer your queries I definitely need good, big and detailed close-ups - for comparison, please check out the quality of images that I usually post.

I would also have to see a clear view of the inside of the lock mechanism.

What about the ramrod finial detail I inquired about?

From what I have seen that far the butt-stock of this pistol comes close to some English 'Cromwellian' type items I have seen, which of course were based on the Netherlands' style.


Jean-Marc S. 26th April 2012 10:11 PM

You are super Michael ;)

Jean-Marc S. 26th April 2012 10:13 PM

The ramrod was said to be a replacement piece (not an original one).


Matchlock 26th April 2012 11:32 PM

Originally Posted by Jean-Marc S.
You are super Michael ;)

Thanks, J.-M.,

All I hope I to be though is what I expect anybody to be who claims to be really 'good' on his expert field - provided that he virtually did NOTHING but STUDY and COLLECT a STRICTLY CONFINED RANGE of arms for more than a quarter of a century - meaning that he owns (and commands!!!) a library containing more than 3,000 related books and catalogs - plus a phototheque taken by himself in museums all over, in private collections and auction previews.

I do.

And believe me: competent expertise can't be achieved otherwise.
Definitely not in a just couple of years - and not by spending money either.

Though it no doubt comes down to money in the end.
Good money is way too often spent on rubbish, believe me. There are members here on our forum who have consequently done this - just because they believe to be 'good' themselves and got used to trust so-called self-proclaimed 'skilled' scoundrels, dealers and collectors alike - which of course actually have been busy making big money fooling people for four decades!

When stating this I am especially talking about Southern Germany, and some special person who attended my collection but still continues believing he can cover 'the full Late-Medieval range' of all kinds of A&A, just trusting in his own 'knowing', and that of a bunch of the above-said professional crooks.

Summarizing what I have been trying to explain: it is just as sad as it is true. Just the same old story got to be told all over again hoping somebody's finally gonna listen and care. :( Guess it was Kris Kristofferson who said that in one of his early 70's songs.

On the other hand, I have up trying to be somebody else's teacher long ago. Seems like anybody got to make (and pay for) experiences of his own, sad as they may be - and mostly prove to be.

Whenever confronted with a serious query I feel I can clear with sufficient expertise I will try.

and good night from Lower Bavaria to wherever you are,


Matchlock 27th April 2012 03:19 PM

For a similar but slightly earlier pair of pistols, of Suhl (Thuringia) type, their flat locks and octagonal barrels accounting for dating them to the 1630's-40, please see


Matchlock 27th April 2012 04:41 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Here is another Netherlandish wheellock holster pistol, ca. 1650-55, dated on the grounds of the rounded lock with beveled edges and the barrel changing from octagonal to round without a noticeable staging - very similar to the one you posted, Jean-Marc.
It was found in the mud of the river Hase in Emsland, near the Netherlands border, and is preserved in astoundingly good condition, with all the original wooden parts still there; the mounts are of brass which is also typical of post-1650 firearms from Holland and the far Western parts of Germany (Aachen, e.g.).


Jean-Marc S. 27th April 2012 09:38 PM

Thanks for the information ;) Super Michael

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