Ethnographic Arms & Armour

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-   -   Curious Kris (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=14441)

ThePepperSkull 28th October 2011 07:53 AM

Curious Kris
 
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Posting this for posterity and to share this unusual piece. I think I've seen similar pieces but these aren't as common so I thought I'd share. Actually I'm surprised pics of this have not turned up on here yet.

If this is in the hands of anybody reading this, please post more pics of it! As always if anyone has anything to add, please do so!

ThePepperSkull 28th October 2011 07:55 AM

6 Attachment(s)
More pics.

Which region is this "Elephant Trunk" shape typically attributed to? Maguindanao?

Anyone familiar with Okir? The carving style looks unfamiliar to me but admittedly as little my eyes are trained to see the subtleties in blade shapes, they are even less attuned to recognize Okir.

Henk 28th October 2011 08:33 AM

My careful guess is that this kris has a broken tip that is reshaped into a dagger like tip. Still a very nice piece.

Gavin Nugent 28th October 2011 12:29 PM

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A very very very rare Moro Sabre.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showt...light=rare+moro

It has been a very long time since I read Cato so I can not rememeber if these are mentioned...anyone care to comment?

Battara 28th October 2011 04:21 PM

Yes this is a kris varient. I agree that the trunk looks like the Maguindanao cross over type but the scabbard looks more Sulu. Not unheard of to do trade between the groups.

Rick 28th October 2011 06:19 PM

I think that this shape was made a purpose rather than reshaped .
The fuller curves up at the point .

I envy the owner .

VANDOO 29th October 2011 12:37 AM

PERHAPS THE SWORD TIP IS MODELED AFTER THE JAPANESE SWORD POINT.?

EITHER WAY A NICE AND RARE VARIATION OF KRIS. :D

laEspadaAncha 29th October 2011 01:12 AM

It is visually stunning, isn't it?

Any ideas, theories, or speculations as to what influenced this particular form? I like the above comparison of the asymmetrical profile/grind of the blade tip to the kissaki of a Japanese sword. Similar profiles were also found on swords from Dynastic China and Korea.

Rick 29th October 2011 01:44 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by laEspadaAncha
It is visually stunning, isn't it?

Any ideas, theories, or speculations as to what influenced this particular form? I like the above comparison of the asymmetrical profile/grind of the blade tip to the kissaki of a Japanese sword. Similar profiles were also found on swords from Dynastic China and Korea.


Reminds me a bit of a sailor's cutlass . :shrug:

laEspadaAncha 29th October 2011 02:47 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick
Reminds me a bit of a sailor's cutlass . :shrug:


Indeed it does... Now when I stare at it, it's like the kris variant of this:


Nathaniel 29th October 2011 05:17 AM

Interesting piece :)

Sajen 29th October 2011 12:42 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePepperSkull
Actually I'm surprised pics of this have not turned up on here yet.



When I remember correct there have been a thread before where was shown a kris with the same shape/tip. But can't remember when and where. :shrug:

But did someone have seen before something like this: http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...em=250919366807
The kris was listed at 27.10.11 and ended early at 28.10.11, I was the first bidder but I think that someone did a a deal with the seller. :shrug:

Any comments?

Regards,

Detlef

kino 29th October 2011 01:15 PM

Sajen-Thanks for posting the link. With another forum member, we have seen and handled one very similar. The one you posted seems to be missing it's pommel. The one we handled had a ivory Kakatua. It was very graceful with a flexy blade. My thoughts are that the one we handled was a captured Euro., blade modified by a Panday (added the elephant trunk, ganya..). This one you posted is the 2nd one I've ever seen.

I'll post the link later, unless someone beats me to it

Sajen 29th October 2011 01:32 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by kino
Sajen-Thanks for posting the link. With another forum member, we have seen and handled one very similar. The one you posted seems to be missing it's pommel. The one we handled had a ivory Kakatua. It was very graceful with a flexy blade. My thoughts are that the one we handled was a captured Euro., blade modified by a Panday (added the elephant trunk, ganya..). This one you posted is the 2nd one I've ever seen.

I'll post the link later, unless someone beats me to it


Hello Kino,

yes, the seller write in his description: "The pommel piece is missing"

Regards,

Detlef

migueldiaz 30th October 2011 11:24 AM

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There's a similar piece from the Burke Museum in Seattle. The link to the photo album is here.

Gavin Nugent 30th October 2011 11:52 AM

An awesome example, thanks for sharing.

Gustav 30th October 2011 01:24 PM

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Another very interesting transitional form from Holstein's catalogue, twistcore. Perhaps somebody who owns a better copy could post it oncemore?

Gavin Nugent 30th October 2011 02:30 PM

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A quick scan and edit...a little more defined....

kino 30th October 2011 04:51 PM

MiguelDiaz thanks for posting the photo and the link.

Rick 30th October 2011 05:21 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by laEspadaAncha
Indeed it does... Now when I stare at it, it's like the kris variant of this:



I must be a dull fellow . :o

This went right over my head .....

laEspadaAncha 30th October 2011 06:21 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick
This went right over my head .....


Just as the picture resolves itself into both a beautiful young woman and an old hag, I see an E. Asian influence in the blade one minute, a European cutlass the next... ;)

Rick 30th October 2011 07:17 PM

Ahhh, finally I see it !
Thank you Ibrahiim .

Nirghosa 2nd November 2011 12:13 AM

The sabre kris is very, very high on my short aquisition list. Having handled one, it truely sings in the hand.

Gustav 14th December 2011 12:08 PM

More sabre-like pieces:

http://anthro.amnh.org/anthropology...1%2F%201444%20A

http://anthro.amnh.org/anthropology...=70.1%2F%209201

And the "more common" rare form:

http://anthro.amnh.org/anthropology...=70.1%2F%207745

http://anthro.amnh.org/anthropology...=70.1%2F%209197

And one real oddity from 1926, with clearly Terengganu (Malaysia) inspired hilt:

http://anthro.amnh.org/anthropology...=70.1%2F%207761

And one of the most beautiful krisses ever :) :

http://anthro.amnh.org/anthropology...1%2F%208459%20A

David 14th December 2011 04:31 PM

Hmmm....the museum dates this last one as "Early 20th Century". Does that date seem a bit off to anyone else? :shrug:

migueldiaz 14th December 2011 04:48 PM

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thanks, gustav, for the links! i can see in the pic of the museum catalogue pages (example below) that they have lots of barungs and moro spears. how does one access the pics of those? :)

Gustav 14th December 2011 09:22 PM

Hello Migueldiaz, just put "Barong" in the search box (left side):

http://anthro.amnh.org/asia

migueldiaz 14th December 2011 11:55 PM

Hello Gustav. Many thanks!

Battara 15th December 2011 02:54 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by David
Hmmm....the museum dates this last one as "Early 20th Century". Does that date seem a bit off to anyone else? :shrug:

I'm with you on that. Perhaps more accurately the period when they were collected........ :rolleyes:

Yes thanks Gustav. :)

nacho 1st May 2012 03:56 AM

1 Attachment(s)
A rare moro kris sabre was sold in an auction this morning.


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