Ethnographic Arms & Armour

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-   Keris Warung Kopi (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=11)
-   -   I have no idea (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=14177)

joshuao21 8th August 2011 01:40 AM

I have no idea
 
i bought this thinking it was cool and someone told it is old and i should look it up. i pretty sure it is a keris. what kind and where its from, i have no idea. any comments on this blade will be welcomed. i posted some pictures on another site but i didn't get anything definite.

David 9th August 2011 12:31 PM

3 Attachment(s)
Hi Joshua. Photos should be uploaded directly to this site, not through links. There are direction for how to do this in the main forum if you are confused. I have copied and resized your photos here.

sirek 9th August 2011 01:05 PM

Hello Joshua,

I doubt that this keris is old :shrug:
the hilt looks that it's made of some sort of resin
(The overall appearance and the visible air bubbles on the bottom)

But I like the pendok (sheath) with the wayang figures :)

Jean 9th August 2011 05:51 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by sirek

I doubt that this keris is old :shrug:
the hilt looks that it's made of some sort of resin
(The overall appearance and the visible air bubbles on the bottom)


Yeah, a new Madurese blade and Madurese hilt made from resin, see its twin on the right of the picture.
Regards

David 9th August 2011 06:37 PM

I am afraid that i must agree on all fronts. Looks like a resin molded hilt on a fairly recent blade most probably produced for the tourist trade. The pendok (metal sleeve that fits over the stem of the sheath) is interesting with it's depiction of wayang characters, but it doesn't look to be of a very high quality. And, of course, the rest of the sheath is gone...

David 12th August 2011 04:11 PM

Joshua, i notice you haven't made any return comments. I hope you have not been discouraged or disinterested because this didn't turn out to be an old or special blade. I think we all have at least one keris in our collections that we bought as a newbee that we would think better of today. Mistakes are part of the learning process. Regardless, it is still a "cool" item. Spending some time around here and checking into our archives will probably help you make better purchases in the future. :)

Jean 12th August 2011 06:22 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Joshua, I fully agree with David that we all have bought some new pieces in our collections and that reading the forum threads is an excellent learning tool. I attach the pictures of 2 new Madurese blades made for the tourist trade, these are easy to identify but others are not.
Regards

sirek 12th August 2011 08:40 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Who did not have a naga keris from Madura ;)

asomotif 12th August 2011 09:49 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by sirek
Who did not have a naga keris from Madura ;)


EEK :eek: this one is really over the top. ;)

I tried to find my beginners mistake.
I can only think of the spanish made samurai swords that I bought when I was in my teens. They are hidden in the closet, not to be exposed ;) :p

Best regards,
Willem

A. G. Maisey 12th August 2011 11:01 PM

Jean, I do not agree with "made for the tourist trade".

I see this phrase , or something like it, often, and it is just straight out wrong.

The two keris that you have shown are of reasonable quality, and would have been produced for the local market in Indonesia.

The keris is a part of Javanese formal dress, and there are only so many old blades that are suitable for use as a dress keris. The biggest market for modern keris production is the local market in Indonesia itself, it is not tourists nor is it western collectors.

The best of modern production is spoken for before it is even produced, and it finishes up with keris connoisseurs in Indonesia, or to people outside Indonesia who have the right connections.

The bulk of other modern production goes into the local market and is bought by Indonesians.

Yes, of course there are keris that are directed specifically at tourists, and these are of abysmal quality, often just pieces of sheet iron for a blade that holds together an elaborately carved scabbard and hilt.

The keris that Joshua has shown us is probably towards the upper end of the products that tourists have the opportunity to buy.

The keris that you have shown us are mid-quality current production intended for the Indonesian market.

On the subject of mistakes, the very first keris I ever bought in Indonesia was a monumental mistake. At the time I bought it I already had many years experience in collecting keris, and I thought I was pretty clever. I was approached in the courtyard of a hotel in Menteng and offered a very beautiful (in my eyes at that time) keris with a waved blade, a singo barong, and dripping with gold. I paid a pretty good price for it. Eventually I found out that it was an altered blade with the singo barong a later addition, and the weld joint hidden by gold.

Yep, we all make errors.

David 13th August 2011 04:46 AM

I agree with you Alan that Jean's examples are of a somewhat higher quality level than the one that started this thread. I would also agree that the term "tourist keris" is one that gets thrown around far too often and is not always correct, but given the molded resin hilt and over all quality of Joshua's keris which looks to have brass "kinatah" instead of gold i am more inclined to accept that designation for this blade. :shrug:

A. G. Maisey 13th August 2011 06:38 AM

As I am myself, David, but towards the upper end of the souvenir market.

Jean 13th August 2011 09:15 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey
The two keris that you have shown are of reasonable quality, and would have been produced for the local market in Indonesia.


Hello Alan,
Good news, thanks. I bought the blade shown at the bottom of the picture from the late H.B Hardiono from Surabaya, a very famous kris collector and trader. I bought it because of the very nice sarong & hilt so it was probably a dress kris indeed. :)
Best regards
Jean

sirek 13th August 2011 09:38 AM

1 Attachment(s)
[QUOTE=asomotif]EEK :eek: this one is really over the top. ;)

This model is even exhibited in a museum (muzium perak- Malaysia) :rolleyes:

Therefore I do not see it as a tourist keris, but as a reproduction keris :D

Jean 13th August 2011 12:20 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by sirek
[QUOTE=asomotif]EEK :eek: this one is really over the top. ;)

This model is even exhibited in a museum (muzium perak- Malaysia) :rolleyes:

Therefore I do not see it as a tourist keris, but as a reproduction keris :D


Yeah, this is what some sellers call "museum quality" :D but does it really reproduce an old kris or rather be considered as a modern art piece?

Rick 15th August 2011 06:56 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by David
Joshua, i notice you haven't made any return comments.


Yep, David .
I think this one was a drive by . ;) :(

joshuao21 22nd August 2011 10:08 PM

Sorry I've been away
 
Sorry guys my wife and I just had a baby and been busy. Thanks for all info.
Did I get my four bucks worth?

Rick 22nd August 2011 10:24 PM

Hey now, Joshua !
Congratulations on the addition to the family . :)

Yeah, you got your $4 worth; the handle may be cast but the blade is hand made from what I can see .

Best,

Rick

asomotif 22nd August 2011 11:41 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by joshuao21
Sorry guys my wife and I just had a baby and been busy.

Congratulations ! Everything well ?

Best regards,
Willem

A. G. Maisey 23rd August 2011 04:15 AM

Congratulations Joshua.

$4 must be close to a record for lowest price paid.

Can anybody beat that?

joshuao21 23rd August 2011 05:56 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by asomotif
Congratulations ! Everything well ?

Best regards,
Willem



everything great. thanks for askin. fourth child first girl.

joshuao21 23rd August 2011 05:59 AM

thanks all. i'll be on the lookout for more blades.


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