Ethnographic Arms & Armour

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-   -   Crowns on Aceh weapons revisited (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=12406)

Battara 28th August 2010 05:25 PM

Sorry Asomotif. By chore I meant a lot of work (US colloquial expression). Back then they had more experience with doing this type of work than we do today.

Recong with another eh? Oh well..... :(

asomotif 28th August 2010 10:13 PM

Quote:
By chore I meant a lot of work


Ok, that explains the comment :)

erikscollectables 30th August 2010 12:47 PM

bronbeek
 
Was able to visit the Bronbeek Museum this weekend.
Unfortunately it is no langer a small heaven for those interested in the military history of the Dutch East Indies - it dropped from the first place in my list of favourite museums in the Netherlands....

There are still a few good Aceh weapons on display among which the rencong in the photo from Willem with triple crown and golden back on an ivory handle.

Also a peudeung with the handle totally covered in gold (I think the same as in Zonneveld...) - still looking for one like that - tips are most welcome :)

But no longer the Aceh flags and the large amounts of ethnographic weapons they had in the previous set up.

Will post pictures of the rencong with crowns later on.

Maurice 30th August 2010 01:28 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by erikscollectables
Was able to visit the Bronbeek Museum this weekend.
Unfortunately it is no langer a small heaven for those interested in the military history of the Dutch East Indies - it dropped from the first place in my list of favourite museums in the Netherlands....

There are still a few good Aceh weapons on display among which the rencong in the photo from Willem with triple crown and golden back on an ivory handle.

Also a peudeung with the handle totally covered in gold (I think the same as in Zonneveld...) - still looking for one like that - tips are most welcome :)

But no longer the Aceh flags and the large amounts of ethnographic weapons they had in the previous set up.

Will post pictures of the rencong with crowns later on.
Oooooohhh, what a pity. They hide away all good things in the depots!:mad:
And what are they displaying? Just wait a few years, and all there will be left is a puppet-show!

Do they still exhibiting that mandau in a showcase, or did they stuff that one away behind doors also?

Regards,
Maurice

erikscollectables 30th August 2010 04:58 PM

Gone and none on display...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maurice

Do they still exhibiting that mandau in a showcase, or did they stuff that one away behind doors also?

Regards,
Maurice

erikscollectables 30th August 2010 05:10 PM

three items with crowns
 
3 Attachment(s)
Here three nice items that are still on display in Bronbeek Museum.
*Sikin Peusangan with a single crown in suassa or copper - a first for me this type of single crown.
*Rentjong with total handle covered in gold
*Rentjong with crowns and back in gold on hippo ivory

asomotif 30th August 2010 07:12 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Thanks Erik for the nice pictures.
Indeed a shame that they hide away all weapons.
Modern times. Musea are meant to educate and build bridges.
Weapons are often not a part of that.

Ps. the rencong with the gold covered hilt was used in the attack on Luitenant Kolonel W.B.J.A. Scheepens in Oktober 1913.
He died from the wound on 17th october 1913. A few days after the attack.

Battara 30th August 2010 11:38 PM

Beautiful gold covered rencongs. Thank you for posting.

erikscollectables 1st September 2010 06:55 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by asomotif
the rencong with the gold covered hilt was used in the attack on Luitenant Kolonel W.B.J.A. Scheepens in Oktober 1913.
He died from the wound on 17th october 1913. A few days after the attack.

I looked up the story - I remembered reading it. It is in the book Atjeh by Zentgraaff (pages 49/50).

Scheepens was the military and civil commander of the city Sigli in Atjeh at that time. As civil commander he was also acting as the local judge.
There was a dispute between the son of an oelama (local religious leader) and a regular citizen were the son was hit. In court the regular citizen was punished to 3 months imprisonment - to the father this was not satisfactory and after some discussion over this with Scheepens he took his rencong by surprise and stabbed Scheepens in the belly. The oelama was immediately struck down by the Atjeh men and did not survive.

As an experienced Atjeh fighter Scheepens knew the stab was likely to kill him. But his pregnant wife was also there and in order to calm her down he acted as he was not badly hurt and suggested to drink a glass of champagne on the good outcome. After which he walked to the hospital. Despite the surgeon that was in the meantime noticed and came down from Koeta Radja in a hurry he was not to be saved and he died a few days later.
He was a very highly decorated officer with a lot of experience in Atjeh.

The son of the oelama was rejected by his mother after this for not standing up for his father and defending him there. It is a sad history for all that were involved.

And the rentjong is still in the collection of the Bronbeek museum! A very interesting piece of history - I hope this will be explained there as I did not know this was that infamous rentjong and there was no text at all.

Erik

asomotif 1st September 2010 12:14 PM

Thanks Erik for sharing the whole story on Scheepens.
Strange that they do not mention this in the museum.

Quote:
*Sikin Peusangan with a single crown in suassa

I checked the "Legermuseum"at Delft, and they also have a sikin peusangan with a single suasa crown. Their collection nr 11149
Nice example that is, with a buffalohorn scabbard mouth and the scabbard covered with 3 large sections of silver.
I forgot my camera, so no pics.

Best regards,
Willem

Battara 1st September 2010 08:14 PM

I was wondering, what about triple silver crowns?

asomotif 2nd September 2010 10:38 AM

Quote:
what about triple silver crowns?

I have no clue about the meaning / status, but here are 2 examples :

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showt...=silver+rencong

Best regards,
Willem

erikscollectables 2nd September 2010 11:27 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Battara
I was wondering, what about triple silver crowns?


Me too. What I can say that in the first picture in this thread there are two that are silver and never have been gilded.

I think gilded silver has to do with the amount of money available - the would have liked to have gold but did not have the money.

The two I have may have a different cultural/ethnic background. The one with ivory is Gajo (Gayo) for certain the other is probably as well from that region (use of suassa and colour of the sheath hint at that.

I think in Aceh the use of silver was frowned upon - this might have been different in the Gayo area. The one with ivory seems a ritual or status piece and is very big in size - not very practical to wear or handle I think for the regular length of people then and there.

Regards, Erik

asomotif 2nd September 2010 03:16 PM

Hi Erik,

I must say that the silver handle from Battara (in the link above) shows much less detail than similar handles in gold. So besides the lack of money maybe this silver rentjong is also from a later date ? (no offense intended, just imho)

Best regards,
Willem

erikscollectables 2nd September 2010 04:18 PM

The one does not have to exclude the other :) I still think it is a money question but next to this these type of rentjongs were produced at least into the 40s for ceremonial use like on weddings etc from what I know. Wear still limited to those allowed by adat.

The silver handle I have has great detail - inlay with enamal in good quality and a diamond on top. That is late 19th or early 20th century IMHO. It is the second one in the link mentioned.


Quote:
Originally Posted by asomotif
Hi Erik,

I must say that the silver handle from Battara (in the link above) shows much less detail than similar handles in gold. So besides the lack of money maybe this silver rentjong is also from a later date ? (no offense intended, just imho)

Best regards,
Willem

Battara 3rd September 2010 01:16 AM

OH Asomotif, no offense taken. I would not be surprised if it were later. Perhaps a wedding rencong from an adjacent place. No idea. Guess I just want to know where my silver one would be in the pecking order of things since obviously the gold crowns signify at least high nobility.

Battara 29th May 2011 07:27 PM

Have another question regarding gold crowned rencong:

Are the scabbards supposed to have 2 gold bands on them?

Jonno 29th May 2011 08:33 PM

I have never seen gold bands, many silver and some suasa.
But I think it will be possible.

You can find some other examples on:
http://www.atchin.nl/Atchin/Atjeh_w...s/Rentjong.html

Battara 29th May 2011 11:22 PM

Thank you Jonno. Great site - yes I have seen one with suassa and several with silver. One gold crowned rencong on the site had 4 silver bands on it!

Very helpful.

erikscollectables 30th May 2011 02:43 PM

Hi,

In my experience the sheath is supposed to have no bands at all! They are repairs for sheaths that have problems. But repairs are quite common. The material used says something about the importance they gave to the repair is my opinion.

Regards, Erik


Quote:
Originally Posted by Battara
Thank you Jonno. Great site - yes I have seen one with suassa and several with silver. One gold crowned rencong on the site had 4 silver bands on it!

Very helpful.

Battara 30th May 2011 02:54 PM

Erik that too is helpful and less expensive! :D

spellchant 3rd June 2011 03:20 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Hello everyone, this is my first post. :D Thought I'd share with you a picture of my old Rencong.

This is a family heirloom which was given to me by my late grandfather. According to him this rencong was forged during the early 1950's by a famous Rencong maker back in the day.

As I'm sure many of you here know, there are various types of Rencong in Aceh, each with its own distinctive characteristics. This particular piece belongs to the Meucunggek class, reserved for royalties, nobilities and other distinguished groups of people. My grandfather was a highly decorated provincial chief of Police in Aceh and thus was awarded this Rencong as a symbol of gratitude by the Aceh people.

It's hilt and scabbard are made of ivory, while the blade itself is made from a material known locally as 'besi putih' or white iron/steel (correct me if I'm wrong) said to have supernatural properties :) . The hilt is decorated with about 10 grams of 20 carat gold which adds to the overall value of this finely crafted work of art. :D

As rencong forging is dying art, you're unlikely to find many rencong of this caliber nowadays.

Hope I'm off to a good start. :)

Rick 3rd June 2011 01:32 PM

Welcome to the forums . :)

Battara 3rd June 2011 02:23 PM

Nice piece and thank you for sharing your great family heirloom. :D

Welcome to our little forum!

kai 3rd June 2011 09:44 PM

Welcome to the forum - it's great to receive any input from the peoples from whom these pieces actually originate!

Quote:
This is a family heirloom which was given to me by my late grandfather. According to him this rencong was forged during the early 1950's by a famous Rencong maker back in the day.

Any chance to research his name? Your inherited rencong does look like what I associate with post-WW2 work, indeed. Quality seems to be nice though!

Has the blade always been kept shiny like this? Any idea/hints wether the blade is laminated and/or tempered?

If possible, please post close-up pics of the base of the blade as well as the base and tip of the hilt - I'd really love to have a detailed look at the style of the decorations! Also a pic of the blade taken directly from above (to avoid distortions) would be great! Thanks a lot in advance!


Quote:
As rencong forging is dying art, you're unlikely to find many rencong of this caliber nowadays.

Utami used to post here and showed some recently crafted pieces. AFAIK, he lost contact with the noted bladesmith after the tsunami desaster... :(


Quote:
Hope I'm off to a good start. :)

Definitely. :) Thanks again!

Regards,
Kai

asomotif 17th June 2011 09:11 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by erikscollectables
This is really interesting and as stated before I have not seen anything like it ever before! Rare combination of crown/inlay and type of handle too! I go to Bronbeek quite often but cannot remember seeing this baby?

Erik, it is in the depot. :) (collection Bronbeek, Museum)

asomotif 19th June 2011 10:00 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Found this one on the website of the Wereldmuseum collection nr 20121.
drewl, drewl :p

Sajen 19th June 2011 10:56 PM

So far I know is "besi putih" a steel with very high nickel content or pure nickel.

Regards,

Detlef

Battara 20th June 2011 07:02 PM

Sorry wrong post.

Maurice 21st June 2011 08:39 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by asomotif



I checked the "Legermuseum"at Delft, and they also have a sikin peusangan with a single suasa crown. Their collection nr 11149
Nice example that is, with a buffalohorn scabbard mouth and the scabbard covered with 3 large sections of silver.
I forgot my camera, so no pics.

I also didn't have my camera, but happily a cellphone with full battery. :)


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