Ethnographic Arms & Armour

Ethnographic Arms & Armour (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/index.php)
-   Keris Warung Kopi (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=11)
-   -   RAKSASA & Buta Bajang Figure Hilts (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=10387)

ganjawulung 4th July 2009 03:13 AM

RAKSASA & Buta Bajang Figure Hilts
 
1 Attachment(s)
Dear All,

Again, this was just an intermezzo. Just call it a weekender keris sight-seeing. Just want to share with you, pictures of what many of you call such hilts as -- raksasa hilts. Or, "buta bajang" hilts, whatever. Really I don't have the "pakem" book yet on such hilts.

I would like to thank you too, if you wish to share too, your pictures on such hilts. I believe, there are still more such hilts all around here...

GANJAWULUNG

ganjawulung 4th July 2009 03:15 AM

CLOSE ups of one of them
 
3 Attachment(s)
Here are close ups on one of them...

GANJAWULUNG

ganjawulung 4th July 2009 03:19 AM

MORE Close ups on other hilts
 
6 Attachment(s)
Some of them are not like "buta" or "raksasa", but like figures of Javanese wayang...

GANJAWULUNG

A. G. Maisey 4th July 2009 05:21 AM

7 Attachment(s)
Nice handles Pak G.

You're right, it is a pity we do not have any guide book relating to this form of hilt.

I've posted some rough pics of a few of mine, but really, I don't know if they strictly fit the parameters or not --- but I'm certain that they fit the "whatever" classification.

ganjawulung 4th July 2009 12:26 PM

MUDRA?
 
Thanks a lot, Alan for sharing your fantastic "butas"... Is there any thing to tell on some of their 'gesture'. Any 'speculation' idea on the "mudra", the special gesture of their hands and fingers maybe?

GANJAWULUNG

VVV 4th July 2009 01:28 PM

5 Attachment(s)
My favourite kind of keris hilt!
In the late Karsten Sejr-Jensenīs book and CD there is an analysis of the mudra signs etc.

Here are some of mine.

Michael

A. G. Maisey 4th July 2009 02:41 PM

Sorry Pak Ganja, this is an area that I know virtually nothing about.

Supposedly many of these figures are found in the pralambapada mudra, but my knowledge is insufficient for me to confirm this, or to speculate upon the reason, if indeed they are.

It has been suggested to me by a Chinese academic who teaches in this area of knowledge that perhaps these mudras are not so accurately portrayed and that to truly interpret them might be more than a little difficult.

These hilts are probably very fertile ground for some serious research.

harimauhk 4th July 2009 02:51 PM

Nice hilts. I too don't know much about them, but having grown up around Hinduism (I'm Indian and Nepalese), I find Indonesian representations of figures from Hindu mythology fascinating. Just out of curiosity, does 'buta' mean ghost?

ganjawulung 5th July 2009 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harimauhk
Nice hilts. I too don't know much about them, but having grown up around Hinduism (I'm Indian and Nepalese), I find Indonesian representations of figures from Hindu mythology fascinating. Just out of curiosity, does 'buta' mean ghost?

Not 'ghost', but 'giant'. In some (javanese) wayang stories, giants were not always gigantic in size. Only the form (appearance) is 'giant' like, but the size of the creature is told as -- sometimes even smaller than human being. "Buta Bajang" means "Dwarf giant"... Literally "buta" (javanese) means "giant". Unfortunately, in Bahasa Indonesia (Indonesian language) "buta" means "blind"..

GANJAWULUNG

harimauhk 5th July 2009 12:27 PM

Ma kasih ganja, in Hindi, "bhut" means ghost, which is why I was curious.

David 5th July 2009 05:01 PM

Great thread, though i would like to point out that we had a very similar thread on these figurative hilts this past spring. It might not be a bad idea to merge the 2 threads just to have all this info in one place, but for now i will just provide a link. :)
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=raksasa

erikscollectables 5th July 2009 07:52 PM

favorites
 
1 Attachment(s)
Yes my most favorite type as well.

The discussion last time (as mentioned by David) with good input from Alan was very interesting.
Also the krisdisk mentioned by Michael and of course the text by Martin Kerner on this theme is quite interesting (for those that read german..)

Erik

Battara 5th July 2009 11:45 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by ganjawulung
I would like to thank you too, if you wish to share too, your pictures on such hilts. I believe, there are still more such hilts all around here...

Well this is the only rakshasha hilt I have - ivory, gold, and Balinese:

A. G. Maisey 6th July 2009 12:48 AM

Good idea David.

I'd forgotten that we'd been down this road before, if I'd remembered I would not have started walking along it again.

ganjawulung 8th July 2009 04:36 PM

5 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by VVV
My favourite kind of keris hilt!
In the late Karsten Sejr-Jensenīs book and CD there is an analysis of the mudra signs etc.

Here are some of mine.

Michael

Thanks, Michael, for showing "your avatar" in complete view.. Thanks a lot too, to Erik and David. These are more pictorial post of such hilts...

GANJAWULUNG

ganjawulung 8th July 2009 04:39 PM

5 Attachment(s)
And more poses of this old model...

GANJAWULUNG

erikscollectables 8th July 2009 05:45 PM

Really great examples Ganjawulung!
Thanks for sharing!

I am always searching for these but really good ones are harder and harder to find...(at least here in Holland)

Erik

David 8th July 2009 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ganjawulung
And more poses of this old model...

Nicely carved fellow, but he doesn't look particularly old... :shrug:

ganjawulung 8th July 2009 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David
Nicely carved fellow, but he doesn't look particularly old... :shrug:

Old ones, David. But unfortunately, it was my fault to clean it too clean. It happened long time ago. So it (they) had lost the patina. Originaly they were so dirty and heavy patinated. I cleaned it with tooth-brush and detergent. And after it became so pale, then I put coconot oil.... But I will never do such silly thing again. Really, it is not new ones...

GANJAWULUNG

ganjawulung 8th July 2009 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by erikscollectables
Really great examples Ganjawulung!
Thanks for sharing!

I am always searching for these but really good ones are harder and harder to find...(at least here in Holland)

Erik

Difficult too to find in Jawa. All are gone somewhere in the world... I have couple in the past, but that was my fault. I cleaned the patinated hilts with tooth brush and soap. Never do like this, Erik...

GANJAWULUNG

Royston 8th July 2009 07:59 PM

A couple more
 
2 Attachment(s)
These are my ones

Roy

Sajen 8th July 2009 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ganjawulung
Old ones, David. But unfortunately, it was my fault to clean it too clean. It happened long time ago. So it (they) had lost the patina. Originaly they were so dirty and heavy patinated. I cleaned it with tooth-brush and detergent. And after it became so pale, then I put coconot oil.... But I will never do such silly thing again. Really, it is not new ones...

GANJAWULUNG

I don't know if this is have been a mistake, the fine carvings sometimes not to see when the handle have to much patination. Some of my handles I have cleaned also.

sajen

Sajen 8th July 2009 10:53 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Some of my wooden handles I have shown in the other threat before.
Here three handles in ivory. Please apologize the bad quality of the photos, it have been a fast snapshot.

sajen

A. G. Maisey 9th July 2009 02:41 AM

Yeah, soap and water sounds a bit drastic.

I use a tooth brush and baby oil to clean really dirty hilts, and really, any other sort of carvings too.

The oil tends to soak into the gunk and soften it, and after you've revisited the carving a few times you'll normally have all the muck removed.

ganjawulung 9th July 2009 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey
I use a tooth brush and baby oil to clean really dirty hilts, and really, any other sort of carvings too.

The oil tends to soak into the gunk and soften it, and after you've revisited the carving a few times you'll normally have all the muck removed.

Yes Alan, now I clean with very very soft tooth-brush only, and then soft clothes...

GANJAWULUNG

ganjawulung 9th July 2009 07:03 AM

4 Attachment(s)
Dear Roy and Sajen,

Thanks for the sharing. And here are more on variations of the 'giant' creatures. A hilt of horn below. More looks like wayang figures...

GANJAWULUNG

ganjawulung 9th July 2009 07:09 AM

WAYANG hilt
 
4 Attachment(s)
And this is probably the wayang hilt. Hopefully, to be older than Cirebon era. Or Pajajaran?

GANJAWULUNG

Sajen 9th July 2009 12:45 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by ganjawulung
And this is probably the wayang hilt. Hopefully, to be older than Cirebon era. Or Pajajaran?

GANJAWULUNG

This hilt is similar to two I have shown in the other threat before. But I don't know how old this hilts. Here again the pictures.

sajen

ganjawulung 9th July 2009 04:47 PM

4 Attachment(s)
Beautiful Wayang hilt, Sajen. I think it is the best I've seen until today...
These are more pictures on other variant of "Buta hilt"...

GANJAWULUNG

Sajen 9th July 2009 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ganjawulung
Beautiful Wayang hilt, Sajen. I think it is the best I've seen until today...
These are more pictures on other variant of "Buta hilt"...

GANJAWULUNG


Thank you very much! But which one you mean? I show two different hilts. By one the Garuda munkur is pirced and by the other one not.

sajen


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:49 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.