Ethnographic Arms & Armour

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-   -   Photos from museum of artillery (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=10281)

Spiridonov 17th June 2009 10:44 AM

Photos from museum of artillery
 
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I have made many photos in an artillery museum in St.-Petersburg. I will gradually apload them at forum. To begin with one of my my favourite gun made in 7050 year:

Spiridonov 17th June 2009 12:43 PM

bronze
calibre 122 mm
length 950 mm
mass 110.5 kg
Inscription on a barrel "ИОАНЬ БОЖИЕЮ МИЛОСТИЮ ГОСУДАРЬ ВСЕЯ РОУСИ ВЛЕТО 7050 ДЕЛАЛ ИГНАТЕЙ" (Ivan the divine favour the tsar of all Russia. At summer 7050 maked by Ignati)

7050 year is 1542 at new style

Spiridonov 17th June 2009 06:30 PM

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late 14 or early 15

Spiridonov 17th June 2009 06:33 PM

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else

Matchlock 19th June 2009 04:25 PM

Hi Spiridonov,

Thank you for uploading and sharing these!

I like especially the short handgonne barrel (Steinbüchse, firing stone balls); the date is, as you wrote, ca. 1400.

Did you happen to photograph at the Hermitage as well?

Greetings,
Michael

Spiridonov 20th June 2009 11:15 PM

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matchlock
Did you happen to photograph at the Hermitage as well?


yes i do.

russian manual wall guns (затинные пищали - zatinni pishals)
earli-mid 16 century

Matchlock 21st June 2009 04:11 PM

Hi Spiridonov,

These are the first good quality images that I have seen of these early Russian guns.

The barrels are even older, late 15th century, and were restocked with 'modern' snap tinder lock mechanisms.

Thank you so much!

Michael

Matchlock 21st June 2009 04:31 PM

Hi Spiridonov,

Do you happen to have good photos of these guns at the Hermitage Museum?

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=7637

Regards,
Michael

Jim McDougall 21st June 2009 07:24 PM

Thank you so much for posting these Spiridonov! These photos of these weapons are fantastic and I cannot say how much it means to have the holdings of these museums shared here.
Michael has for some time presided over fantastic contributions with many photos of his amazing collection and many important items of pertinant artwork, and to have you adding these key Russian museums, the scope of the forum has reached yet another dimension.

These wonderful posts, along with the many fantastic contributions of the many other members here sharing their collections and acquisitions present the great opportunities for us all to learn, as always, together.

All the very best,
Jim

Matchlock 22nd June 2009 04:05 PM

Hi Spriridonov,

I think Jim put it best for all of us!:)

For my reply to your query about earliest snap tinder locks please see here:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=10278

Best,
Michael

Spiridonov 23rd June 2009 11:49 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matchlock
Hi Spiridonov,

Do you happen to have good photos of these guns at the Hermitage Museum?

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=7637

Regards,
Michael

Sorry, i have no photo of this barrel. This arquebuse in a museum store room :(

Spiridonov 23rd June 2009 11:59 AM

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very-very small russian barrels from museum of artyllery:
2: end of 14-begin of 15. calibre 12.5 mm. total length 190 mm. weight 0.6 kg
3: from 1475 to 1500. calibre 12.5 mm. total length 215 mm. weight 0.5 kg

Spiridonov 23rd June 2009 09:34 PM

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Russian button-locks (snapping matchlocks)

Matchlock 26th June 2009 04:58 PM

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I appreciate those images very much, Spiridonov, thank you!

I should date all these items to ca. 1530.

Actually all these snap mechanisms were meant for a small piece of tinder (a sort of fungus growing on trees), not match. You can tell by the tiny jaws of their serpentines that they could never have received a piece of match which used to be as thick as a finger. :) The thick matchcord - often shown wound around the arm - was then only used to light the pieces of tinder each of which was used for only one single shot.

Do you have more of these? We are eager to see them!

Regards,
Michael

Spiridonov 26th June 2009 10:23 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matchlock
Do you have more of these? We are eager to see them!

I will make photo else :) What is your main interes? there are breech-loading artillery of 15 centure in museum. breech-loading arquebuse. Museum of artillery have a very big collection :)

Matchlock 27th June 2009 08:02 PM

Hi Spiridonov,


I have dedicated most of my life, some 30 years, to the intense study of earliest European hand firearms and related accouterments. As you too are deeply interested in this topic you might like to read some of my previous posts:


http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/search.php?searchid=12058


I am certain that you will find many interesting items and historical sources if you take your time.

Best,
Michael

Spiridonov 27th June 2009 09:31 PM

It is a tragegy for me!!! I can't read this post. I see only :"Sorry - no matches. Please try some different terms." I can not read arcive :(

Spiridonov 27th June 2009 10:56 PM

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Europian guns

Matchlock 28th June 2009 01:44 PM

Hi Spiridonov,

No tragedy at all, perhaps the fault was on my side.

Please try this:


http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/search.php?searchid=12168



Best,
Michael

Spiridonov 3rd August 2009 09:32 PM

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Slice of barrel

Spiridonov 10th August 2009 04:03 PM

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Inscription on the barrel:
"On command of good and religous of Grand duke Ivan Vasilevicha of a sovereign Russia maked there was this pishal in 7000 year on September, 30th. Maked by Yakov"
Length 1370 mm
weight 76 kg
7000 russian year is the 1491 of european year

Matchlock 11th August 2009 05:57 PM

Very beautiful cast copper alloy cannon barrel, Spiridonov - thank you so much for sharing! :) ;)

And, might I add, a very topic form of its period as well!

Best,
Michael

fernando 11th August 2009 06:43 PM

Hi Spiridonov,
Great pictures. Thanks for sharing.
which is the same as saying:
большие картины. Спасибо за разделение

Fernando

fernando 11th August 2009 07:11 PM

Speaking of St. Petersburg artillery museum
 
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Let me please hijack your thread, Spiridonov? :cool:
The quality and prime interest of these pictures taken at the artillery museum in St. Petersburg is just the opposite of the ones we can see here:
http://www.xenophon-mil.org/rusarmy...seum/arttbl.htm
The only couple amazing pieces i found, were an experimental square barrel cannon and a nice early stone throwing crossbow.
Did you know this crossbow, Michael?
Fernando

.

Matchlock 12th August 2009 12:49 PM

No, Fernando,

This crossbow is new to me.

Best,
Michael

Spiridonov 12th August 2009 01:39 PM

I know all obout this crossbow. I will answear later. Its a newmaked thing :)

Matchlock 12th August 2009 02:44 PM

That's very interesting indeed, Alexander! :)

Best,
Michael

M ELEY 15th August 2009 04:58 AM

I likewise don't want to hijack this great thread, but I was just wondering if anyone has any pics of any swivel guns/deck guns? Spiridonov's pics have one in the case that caught my eye (any chance for a closer pic of that one?). Just asking- :)
Mark

fernando 15th August 2009 04:45 PM

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Hi Mark,
I wish i had myself a swivel/deck gun to picture and post it here :shrug: .
Attached are perspective pictures of the replica mounted on a 1500's discoveries nau (ship), that was built in a ship yard close from my place.
By the time of Portuguese King Dom Manuel I, a great impeller of naval weaponry, these guns were called berços (cradles), also it appears that this term originated elsewhere.
Also attached is a real one, possibly from the XII century, kept at the Oporto military museum.

Fernando

.

fernando 15th August 2009 04:48 PM

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The real thing

.

M ELEY 16th August 2009 03:59 AM

Absolutely fantastic, Fernando. Thank you! I've become quite fascinated with swivels in their defense of ships. I had never heard the term "bercos" (cradles) before. Now I have more to research- Thanks. Anyone else with rail gun pics?
P.S. Fernando, you lucky dog! From those pics, you must live in a beautiful port city. Green with envy... :(

Dmitry 16th August 2009 08:21 PM

Judging by the breeches of these naval swivel guns, gases blew out of them like there's no tomorrow.

M ELEY 17th August 2009 04:03 AM

True, the breech-loading types might have lost some of their...um...gas :D , but as a close-range weapon meant to sweep the enemies decks, they didn't necessarily need much range. That would have strictly been left up to the larger cannon.

celtan 17th August 2009 01:31 PM

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Hi guys,

Muzzle-loading deck guns in Spain were known as Versos or Falcones, (althought the latter was sometimes employed up to three pounders).

These guns were used in both ships and land fortifications, and their advantage lies in that they could be served sometimes by a single soldier, and were fast to load and fire. Their firing angle could be depressed close to the vertical, for close targets, as enemies close to the walls, boarders, or when shooting from the "carajo" high in the mast.

Breech loaders such as this were known as Patarreros.

I wonder, what would be the market price of one like this..?

I know of one that was found at a wreck site, and is unceremoniously sitting in a corner (after being stabilized) at a local museum depot. I have been trying to make the authorities realize how important that piece is, but If I could give them a $ figure, perhaps they would take better care of it...

BTW: Some breech-loaders were of the larger caliber, and were sometimes fired in banks.

Best

M

fernando 17th August 2009 05:49 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by M ELEY
... P.S. Fernando, you lucky dog! From those pics, you must live in a beautiful port city. Green with envy... :(

When i mentioned close from my place i meant close from my home town . That is, the ship was built in the neighbour town, which is actualy 'glued' to mine.
Both are fishing ports, mine being nowadays a larger one. But in the town where this ship was made, there is much more naval construction history; in fact they used to build caravels there, in the discoveries period.
Tey coordinates Lat: 41.3728, Lon: -8.7719 through Google and you will see my town harbour.
Fernando

fernando 17th August 2009 05:51 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by M ELEY
True, the breech-loading types might have lost some of their...um...gas :D , but as a close-range weapon meant to sweep the enemies decks, they didn't necessarily need much range. That would have strictly been left up to the larger cannon.

Correct reasoning; in fact, most of those pieces were of small dimensions and classified as anti personal. Some times they carried them along on foot, when making incursions in the interior.
They were also good to use in the bateis (ship's rowing boats) to board other ships or engage in battle with other rowing vessels, which so often took place.

fernando 17th August 2009 06:12 PM

Hola Manolo

Quote:
Originally Posted by celtan
... or when shooting from the "carajo" high in the mast ...

Here is a piece of semanthics that many people ignores, even Spanyards (mainly Galicians) and Portuguese, where the term is now only known for its second sense ;) .

Saludos

Fernando

celtan 17th August 2009 09:40 PM

Holá Nandiño,

Actually it's a very interesting word. Carajo/ caraxo can either be 1. a sailing ship "crow's nest", 2. an animal's male sexual organ, or 3. a tax imposed by arabs on the lands of christian subjects.

I guess that the common theme for all three was that you ended up xodido...

Best,

: )


Quote:
Originally Posted by fernando
Hola Manolo


Here is a piece of semanthics that many people ignores, even Spanyards (mainly Galicians) and Portuguese, where the term is now only known for its second sense ;) .

Saludos

Fernando

fernando 17th August 2009 09:59 PM

:eek: :eek: :eek:

Marc 18th August 2009 10:21 AM

:rolleyes:

Well, the word "verga" (eng. "yard", not the unit of length but the spar on a mast from which sails are set) has also a naval origin... :D



Hmm... there's that distinct feeling of a Ban Hammer looming in the horizon...


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