My memory was almost entirely right (with an exception of that I interchanged "persian" and "turkish" bows).
"The Mamluks in Egyptian politics and society" edited by Thomas Philipp and Ulrich Haarmann has an article on p.174 "The late triumph of the Persian bow: critical voices on the Mamluk monopoly on weaponry". It deals mostly with the issue that while descendants of the prophet were banned from carrying weapons, sons of idolaters (mamluks) were the only ones permitted to do so. On p.184 it discusses the crossbows - they had two names "qaws ak zaytun, qaws al jarkh, qaws al-rijl" (not bunduq) and "turkish bow". Some of these bows where possibly some sort of siege machines rather than ordinary crossbows (I can't exactly envision a crossbow firing a 90kg bolt ?).

The nomenclature of bows comes from religious discussions of Ibn al-Qayyim (d.1350) and others on whether a muslim can use weapons of non-muslims (since the prophet himself in principle did not use the weapons of kafir). Crossbows where seen as an introduction made by mamluks from the lands of kafir.

It's a very interesting article, unfortunately (or fortunately) it mostly refers to original sources in arabic with an exception of works I already cited here.

You can read in the "Historia Silense " ( Perez de Urbel y Ruiz-Zorrilla - pages 189-190 ) , in the year 1028 , during the conquist of Coimbra by Fernando I, the relate of the punishment inflicted to a Moor, that has killed his father in law Afonso V, with a crossbow.
These type of texts are or come from writings of the period, and there is no misinterpretation of terminology. A bow is an "arco" ( arch ) and a crossbow is a "besta" ( beast ) or whatever subnames derived from the crossbow evolution and variations.
In the French National Library of Paris, there is ( at least ) an illumination of the great siege of Rhodes, in 1480, where you can clearly see the gear of both Otoman Turks and the Knights Hospitalers ( St. John of Jerusalem ), with the Turks using a consistent shape of crossbows ( one with a highly powerfull cranequin, a ratchet device that spanned a 450 ratio tension ).
Naturally all this showering of examples don't bring a label stating " Made in Islam ", but you are getting each time closer to something solid.

hi all,
sorry for going absent on my own post. i seem to have walked back into some great, and very useful contributions.
jim, as you say i always thought that the greatest link would be from spain, but in my ignorance, i had not thought of portugal. i have access to saracen archery, but although i havent had a chance to access it, from previous viewings i didnt think it would yield any confirmed answers. i was looking into other things at the time so i hope i am wrong.
agtai, what you are doing is what all academics have to do. as the published accounts have produced all that they can, it is time to backtrack back into the original translations, and try and steer research past the set stumbling blocks. this has been happening for some time on the well accepted manuscripts in the hope that a re-translation may offer a different perspective. i am pleased to hear that you tackle this in the same way. i truly look forward to new finds.
krill, thanks for confirming your reference. i got the feeling this involved unpacking material and i really appreciate the effort. i will access the book and see if i can track down his references. i can get these translated, or at least read to see if they can offer any more information.
marc, your contributions have been great. you mention Cantigas de Alfonso X with illustrations. i have found this book on a few sites, but can you confirm an author. as the title is in spanish, the booksellers tend to be spanish and i would hate to buy the wrong book. i will try and send some examples for you to choose which is the correct version.
fernando, your image is wonderful. many thanks! the illustration you say is an illumination of the great siege of Rhodes, in 1480. can you confrim a date for this image? this is important and it would have to have been painted within that period. also, can you tell the the book it came from.
i really do appreciate all the help, and hope that more references will be found in time, and posted here.

B.I.: you are welcome, no problem. I've finished Burke "History of Archery" and "Turkish Archery" by Klopsteg and I have to say their opinion on what is crossbow and what is not is entirely different. Only turkish bow where the stirrup mechanism is explicitly mentioned is certianly a crossbow (such things indeed appear in the mentioned article in "Mamluks in Egyptian ..."). The rest of the bows seem to regular bows, and "foot bows", which the article takes to be crossbows, is just the way these bows where used - two legs holding the frame, two arms used to draw the string. My impression from Burke that qaws something is not related to the crossbow unless some special device used to draw the string is mentioned, so only some of them where actual crossbows.

It's allways a pleasure to be usefull, B.I
I found this illlumination by chance, in a book edited in portuguese, about piracy and corso.
I later found that it is included in the written account of Guillaume Caoursin, titled " Descriptio Obsidionis Rhodiae urbis " ( circa 1490 ), an eye witness of the events, actually the vice-chancelier of the Knights siege defenders at Rhodes. It is kept at the Bibliotheque National in Paris, MS lat.6067, f. 55v.
But coming to Turk crossbow version, you can also track, before these Ottomans in the Rhodes episode, already their antecessors, the Seljuks ( XI-XIII century ), having crossbowmen in their armies.
Keep Well

Brian,

I was at the bookstore today and ran across a book that may be of assistance to you. It is a current book by Dr. David Nicolle titled "God's Warriors" and researches the arms of the Crusaders and those of Saladdin's armies from the 11th to 13th centuries. There are a few references to crossbows being part of the Muslims armies. One in particular that is pictured illustrates a crossbow mounted inside a shield. Although no date is provided one has to assume it dates between the 11th and 13th century since all illustrations provided date to this period. This particular document was referenced to the Bodleian Library, Ms. Hunt 264, f. 117 Oxford England. There are a lot of great source material referenced in this book that talk about the weapons used in this early time frame. If you do not have this book, it might be worth tracking down just for the list of manuscripts with data that would appear important to your research.

Regards,

Rick

thanks rick,
i will definately look into it. oxford is not too far and even closer via a telephone first. will track down the book and check out your reference.
much appreciated.

I found Rex Smith's book, but there was no picture of a Mamluk with a crossbow. :(

Although this is a bit besides the question asked by Brian, I think it may be of interest. When reading ‘The Great Moguls’ by Bamber Gascoigne. Page XVIII. ‘On December 17 (1398) the army of Mahmud Shah and Mallu Khan emerged from the gates of Delhi: ten thousand horses, forty thousand foot and a phalanx of the dreaded elephants, clanking forward in their armour and with long swords bound to their tusks. On their backs were fortified turrets bristling with archers and crossbowmen and even specialists using primitive rockets and devices for slinging hot pitch. But this straightforward Indian magnificence was no match for unorthodox cunning. By the end of the day Mahmud and Mallu had fled back into the city and straight out again the other side, and the victorious Timur was pitching his camp by a large reservoir outside the walls.’

Page 11. ‘Through the winter of 1500 Babur was secure in Samarkand, but the following spring Shaibani Khan returned to besiege him. Babur again pitched his tents on the roof of the college, from which advantage point he directed operations – and he claims even to have done effective work from there with a crossbow when a party of Uzbegs had slipped into the city and were trying to storm his headquarters – but Shaibani Khan was more interested in starving out the garrison.’

It is interesting to note, that the Indians did use crossbows rather early, although it is the first time I have seen any mention of it, the same goes for Baburs use of a crossbow in Samarkand.

Sorry Gentlemen, no photos from the place of scene – only these quotations.

its all helpful jens.
i must admit i cant help chuckling when anyone references bamber gascoigne, but i'm afraid its a very british joke.
bamber gascoigne is legendary over here for presenting a very popular university quiz on primetime tv. no idea how long he id it, but would think maybe 20 years, over the 70's and 80's. anyone that is 30+ will know who he is and because he was so iconic, he is almost at cult status here.
what no one actually knows is that he was a writer first and his book 'the great moghuls' is a great read and maybe the best book on an overall moghul history. not in depth of course, as its a 250 page paperback, but its very easy to read and gives a great base knowledge to expand from. i still re-read mine every few years (bad memory). his passion was always moghul art and architecture (and history) and he wrote a number of article for the V&A as well. i highly recommend his book for anyone who wants knowledge without the headache of hardline academia.

If you take ‘The Book of the sword’ by Richard F. Burton, you can on page 19, note 6, read this. The crossbow is apparently indigenous amongst various tribes of Indo-China, but reintroduced into European warfare during the twelfth century (Yule’s Marco Polo, ii, 143).

Note 1 on page 37 also mentions a crossbow from Benin, and lastly on page 165 the crossbow is mentioned again at the bottom of the page.

The first, note 6, is interesting as it goes back to the twelfth century – if this is correct that is.
I don'r know which edition of Marco Polo Burton is refering to, be course in my copy there is no mention of a crossbow on page 143 in volume II.

hi,
i have been meaning to revive this post for some time, but the thought of dredging back through my notes was too daunting. i would like to thank everyone that helped, especially marc who continued to find some great information. i do have a few more questions, mainly to confirm and expand what already been discussed.

marc -
you mentioned Cantigas de Alfonso X showing muslims carrying crossbows. has this been published in any form that i can access?
also, is there an illustration anywhere of the frescoes found in the Torre de las Damas and do they indeed show mounted crossbowmen?
and you mentioned the death of King Jaume I of Aragon. is this legend or can i find a published account. i did search for a while, but only found reference of his death, and no actual details. is there a book i can find?
the treatise from 1180 written by Al-Tartusi - can i find this published anywhere to see the reference to crossbows.
is the facsimile copy of the Cantigas de Alfonso X available anywhere (British library - or better to buy?)
also, you said -
The frescoes in the Torre de las Damas in the Alhambra are also shown there, though in the form of a drawing. Said drawing was done long ago by Gomez-Moreno, an Spanish arabist and archaeologist, and I seem to remember (might be wrong, here, but it can be checked) that the original frescoes are almost illegible now. They are also found in Nicolle's book.do you mean the frescoes are shown in soler del campos book? also, which nicholle book are you refering to?
also, is is worth tracking down soler del campos book? are the illustrations clear enough to make out the crossbow?

fernando -
you mentioned "Historia Silense " ( Perez de Urbel y Ruiz-Zorrilla - pages 189-190 ) is this in portuguese? do you have this publication and could you scan the relevant pages (inc title page)? this would be of great help, and i could get it translated here.
also, you said -
In the French National Library of Paris, there is ( at least ) an illumination of the great siege of Rhodes, in 1480, where you can clearly see the gear of both Otoman Turks and the Knights Hospitalers ( St. John of Jerusalem ), with the Turks using a consistent shape of crossbows ( one with a highly powerfull cranequin, a ratchet device that spanned a 450 ratio tension ).you also showed the illustration, but is there any more details (artist, date) on this painting? can you let me know the book the image came from?

krill - your references were great and i am tracking them down.
again, thanks to everyone else. this post provided enough information to answer the question and the sources tapped into were astounding.

Hello, Brian.

Ok, let's see...

Yes, it's a well-studied book... but not from the point of view of military matters. So, in many of the published works related to it you can't be sure the illuminations you're interested in are in fact reproduced. Your best bet is a facsimile of the original illuminated manuscript (held at the El Escorial Library), but these tend to be... well, quite extremely expensive. Also, the book by Álvaro Soler del Campo is absolutely out of print, near-impossible to get. You can try, if you want, maybe you're luckier than me:
SOLER DEL CAMPO, Álvaro. "La evolución del armamento medieval en el reino Castellano-Leonés y Al-Andalus (Siglos XII-XIV)", Ed. by Servicio de Publicaciones del E.M.E (Colección Adalid, #33), Madrid, 1993.
ISBN: 84-86806-44-5
But I wouldn't hold my breath.

Nonetheless, I think the best course of action is the following: I'll try to photocopy the relevant figures in the book, together with the related text (in Spanish, I'm afraid) and send them to you. The images are small, in b&w, and, sincerely, quite bad overall. But should be OK if strictly for reference purposes. If you want better images, I found that there's what seems to be a good facsimile of the Cantigas original book in the BL:

Here's the reference

Next:
Yes, they're mounted crossbowmen. As far as I know there's only one illustration of these frescoes: the pencil sketch done by Gómez Moreno at the end of the 19th c. It is the one you'll find reproduced everywhere. I have it Soler del Campo's Book and some other sources, I'll photocopy it for you. Funny how things go... the drawing was done by Gómez Moreno senior, a painter and proto-archaeologist. His son was a famous and prolific archaeologist, and I went a couple of weeks ago to Granada to research his personal archives, now in a Foundation that bears his name, and got a book about Gómez Moreno senior only to have a better example of these drawings...


Next:
Yes. The incident with the crossbow bolt is described in the King's own words in a Crònica (Chronicle) written (or made written) by himself. It is also known as Llibre del Feyts or "Book of the Deeds". There's some English translations, I found one in PDF for you here. Look at chapter/paragraph number 266 (page 136), where the mentioned incident is described. If you look for the word "crossbow" in the text some other references of thier use in Muslim hands could appear, tough I think the majority of them relate to its use by Christians.

I'm sorry, no idea, here, but there is an article (in French, I'm afraid), by Claude Cahen that might be of interest. I'ts published in the Bulletin d’études orientales, and it's entitled Un Traité d’armurerie compose pour Saladin. [On the treatise of Murḍā ibn 'Alī al-Ṭarsūsī contained in Bodleian MS. Hunt. 264. With extracts.]. The reference I found in the BL is here

I would like to, again, strongly recommend you to take a look at the article I referenced you here as it deals with the references to the crossbows in a Moorish manuscript on archery, the original text of which is dated to around 1069-1091. The PDF version of this article is here


See above for the reference to an exemplar in the BL

See also above. The Nicolle's book is the one I referencied in my first post:
NICOLLE, David. "Early Islamic Arms and Armour", Ed. by Instituto de Estudios sobre armas antiguas, Consejo Superior de Investigaciones Científicas, Madrid(?), 1976.
Also absolutely out of print, I'm afraid.

Pleas, give me a couple of weeks to gather all the information I said I would send you, and you'll have it there. I’m swamped in work, right now.
Feel free to e-mail me for any details about the shipping…

Sorry for the late reply
I thaught you were not coming back because you had enough material for you work on the Islamic crossbow, and i didn't check your recent posting.
Not that this is dramatic, as Mark's huge amount of information covers by far my humble contribution to the subject.
I have being trying for the last three days to spot again the web page about the narration of the torture inflicted to that Moor crossbowman, to insert it here for you. I don't remember whether it was in English, Spanish or Portuguese, and probably ununderstandable to you. I rather tell you here that "Historia Silense" is a sort of Epic of the Spanyards, in the period of the Reconquest of the Iberian Peninsula from the Moors.
... Eventually the quoted events in 1028 took place in cities of the Portugal region, but this was still a County, under Spanish rule, only becaming a Kingdom 1139 ...
This cronicle was written by a Spanish anonimous, eventually a Monk, around 1115, and was ( again?) edited in 1959 by Perez de Urbel and Ruiz Zorrilla, also eventually Monks.
This must be a current and acquirable book ... if ever you get it, or if you get copies of pages 189-190, i have no problem to translate them for you, or rather Mark will.
Also if you search the Web on Alfonso V de Leon, father in law of King Fernando I de Castela, you will spot several quotations, leaving no doubt that he was killed in 1028 ( some say 1027), by a bolt shot from the walls of Viseu, during its siege. This archer must be the guy that was tortured by Fernando I, whom was sieging Coimbra, some fourty miles away, and also a target in the same campaign. In pages 189-190 of the cronicle, there must be a closing link.

I have posted a reply on the Rhode Siege Illumination right after your previous question, which i recall here:

I found this illlumination by chance, in a book edited in portuguese, about piracy and corso.I later found that it is included in the written account of Guillaume Caoursin, titled " Descriptio Obsidionis Rhodiae urbis " ( circa 1490 ), an eye witness of the events, actually the vice-chancelier of the Knights siege defenders at Rhodes. It is kept at the Bibliotheque National in Paris, MS lat.6067, f. 55v.
But coming to the Turk crossbow version, you can also track, before the Ottomans Rhodes episode, already their antecessors, the Seljuks ( XI-XIII century ), had crossbowmen in their armies.

I take this chance to refine a statement i made in a previous posting, about crossbow and bow being undistinguishable in some ancient languages:

These type of texts are or come from writings of the period, and there is no misinterpretation of terminology. A bow is an "arco" ( arch ) and a crossbow is a "besta" ( beast ) or whatever subnames derived from the crossbow evolution and variations..

Amazingly the portuguese word for Beast and Crossbow is written the same way: Besta. The different sounding of the "e" makes it either be the actual Besta=Beast ( from Latin Bestia=Animal ) or Besta=Crossbow ( from Latin Ballista (( like for Balistic=Projectile throwing )).Reason why it's called Ballesta in Spanish.). Tricky situation, even for the common Portuguese.
But distinguishably a Bow is an "Arco" ( Latin Arcu - Arquu=Vault ), both in Castilian and Portuguese.

I have found meanwhile some other web sources. If i filter out something solid in them, i will post it in this thread.
Keep well.
Fernando

I got David Nicolle's "Acre 1291" last week, I was flicking through it today, when I found this:

http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/557...ishmuseum0.jpg

According to the caption it is a "Mamluk enamelled glass flask" in the British Museum.

The same book also had this picture:
http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/607...anjaniq8be.jpg

So there is a modern publication on The great siege of rhodes ... certainly with that illumination with the Turks using crossbows..


http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/...roduct-details

OUTSTANDING!
 

i continue to be both impressed and staggered by the information uncovered on this post. none of the sources referenced are common, nor easily accessed and it shows the seriousness of the forum members.

fernando -
thank you for expanding your information. the reason i had let the post 'die out' is because we had uncovered a fair amount of information, and i was waiting for the researcher to come back from france to hand it over to him. he is very happy with the information, but jist needs 'back-up' if he is to use any of it. could be please tell me the source of your mention of the seljuks having crossbows, before the ottoman illustration.
thanks for the book link, and i will order a copy and hand it over (with an invoice!). the article marc found also referenced the crossbow with a number of spanish terms - the foot bow, the foreign bow and the complicated bow. the 'beast' is a good thing to look out for when i am picking through foreign texts to see what i am going to give in for translation.

aqtai -
this research was already started by someone, and he had found the british museum bowl and inserted it in his file. (i wasnt aware of this when i first started the post). still, a great find though and much appreciated.
also, the illumination you linked from david nicholles book is useful, even though its a seige engine. the concept is still similar and maybe this can be used in this manner. thanks.

marc -
as fernando said, a wealth of fabulous information.
i will track down the BL books next time i am there (including the french article you mentioned). it isnt easy getting things copied there, and i hope i can get the information i need without having to type it out myself (not an option - i am slow in english....but spanish!!!)
the kings chronicle in pdf is a great find and i will print it out and hand it in.
the article from the madrid university is fabulous (i think) and i have handed it in for translation. just picking out bits, it seems there is much direct information and i look forward to recieving it back in english. do you know the author?
i can easily get hold of a copy of nicholles book, as its on most of the arms libraries i use and i will chase it up. i have had some time off (playing of course) and so it will be a week or so before i can take more time off to pursue the information in places other than my computer, but i look forward to showing anything new here.
i look forward to the information you are sending (especially the frescoes - even in poor quality), when you have time. believe me, i understand how hard it is to fit in any extra research as i struggle myself.

agian, much appreciated to all.

Just look what i came across with:

http://www.fortunecity.com/victorian...ambra_ma25.htm

http://www.fortunecity.com/victorian...ambra_ma26.htm

It's a pitty, there's something wrong with the attachment uploader ... these pictures are great.

There you are

Nice pics Fernando. :)

The arabesque decoration is a bit "neutral" though, i.e. it doesn't look specifically Islamic. Do you have any more info about this fine weapon?

It's the Nasrid crossbow from the Archaeological Museum of Granada. Allegedly 14th - 15th c. At near 80 cm. long and 124 cm. wide, it's quite impressive, I must say...

If i remember well, B.I. is more interested in a determined model from a determined period, preferrably with pictures.
If the question were how soon in time did Muslims use crossbows, or how soon in time did Musliums make crossbows ( which is a different thing for the matter ), various apparently solid sources could be considered.
You have the Southern Italy Saracens, whom were not fond of the crossbow use, although their artisans used to produce them for Christian Forces:
http://www.deremilitari.org/resource...en_archers.htm
but you also have strong traces of Muslims using Crossbow versions against Christians, namely in the Reconquest period. I will try and attach herev the scanning of part of a letter, written in Latin, by an eye witness of the Conquest of Lisbon in 1147, where the Moors were already equiped with crossbows.
I keep searching the track of the so called moorish "Cuçalarab", a light crossbow from the Reconquest period, so eficient that the Christians have copied it for their own use.
Kind regards

Uploaders still not cooperating ... please see next posting

hi,
the nasrid crossbow is the only known example, and as marc says, it is only assumed as such, hence this post. the one in a private collection that is being researched owes its form and islamic heritage to the comparison of the nasrid piece. it is a great thing, but this question has never been directly followed through.
fernando, the last two pieces of informatipon are both great, and although neither proves that the crossbow was made and used by islamic warrior, without being directly influenced by the european version, it definately can class as ammunition that it was in use by the muslim armies.
both a great find.
i shall meet up with the researcher, and try and get the information he already has, to add to this posting, and will given in these last few pieces.
again, great work.

Hi,

Have a look at the illustration in Islamic Arms and Armour, edited by Robert Elgood. I know you have it, as you have shown the silver bottle on page 168. Have a look on page 31, the right side of the picture, I think I see one, maybe two crossbows – or should I put my 'glass eyes' on?

Eight to ninth century, would that be early enough?

Hi B.I. and all involved.
At this point we may assume the principle of the egg and the hen ... who knows which came first.
In an ultimate perrogative, we may consider that, even if we demonstrate that a determined islamic army appeared in such battle, siege, or campaign with crossbow equipment, it doesn't mean that they have produced them themselves. Or if they had, it doesn't mean they produced them with their own pattern. Or if they had, it doesn't mean their pattern was not inspired by previous christian models.
Besides the fact that not all islamized peoples were of the same origin, or leaved in same the region in the same period, nor they had the same weaponry options.
Also an old empirical saying pretends that you can never be sure that something is invented, but either reinvented, only not "publicised" or brought to practice before. Da Vincy invented the pointed bullit and the helycopter a few centuries before it was (re) invented and brought to practice. Luckily in this case we have its drawings.
In the available hipothesis, the crossbow was brought to practice by the chinese ( we ignore if the crossbow principle was discovered before ).
Then after that, whom copied whom, its something rather complex, indeed. There are muslims of many races, and christians all the same. There were bans on the crossbows made by Mohamad to muslims, but also by the Pope, made to christians. In both cases, a part of them ( not necessarily all ) ignored the ban.
It is a fact that muslims in all had a significantly lower atraction for the use ( not manufacturing ) of this weapon.
But let it be no doubt they either produced it, used it in action, and also developed their own models.Actually their intelectuals have written treatises on the subject, already in XII century.
The Arab Murdâ ben Ali (1137-1193) treatise, has largely described sofisticated crossbow variations.
Murthi ibn Ali Al Tarsusi wrote a treatise for Saladin, called "Tabsiratu Arbab Al-Albab", including descriptions and sketches of crossbow developments.
Naturally theses works were published in modern languages, surely in english. But i can trace a description of the Tarsusi drawings in a known Forum ... however the pictures are deleted, the thread is from last year:
'A crossbow used for launching naptha jars/pots'
'A circular ballista which can hold up to 4 bolts. When one is shot, the dial on the top of the wooden base turns to fire the other'
'A cavalry lance with a crossbow attached to it'
'another lance with a crossbow'
'Diagram of a buckler with a crossbow attached on the inner side of it. The bolt can be discharged with a simple lever, that will launch the bolt through a small hole in the steel sheild'
It is therefore acceptable that christians learned the crossbow use at fighting

the cruzades against muslems, and so brought it down south, like to the iberian peninsula, in the reconquest campaings. But they had to face the same weapon from the moors side. Potentially, in this context, the christians were the weapon replicators, and not the moors.

The "fantasia" performed by inland mahgrebian mounted moors for the tourists, using close to phony miquelet muskets, are a consequence of their ancient feasts, as they still reproduce, with the musket, the same gestuals originally performed by cavalry crossbowmen, in the XIV century.

http://equestre.leguide.ma/disciplines.cfm?id=18

There is several literature describing the corsair moors, from the mahgreb, crossbow professionals from Larache and Tetuan, that vastly atacked iberian ships on the north african coast. Famous enough to incorporate the Janisary armies:

http://www.bleublancturc.com/Turqueries/janissaires.htm

and still eficient to be required by the Egyptian Sultan, to join his army comanded by a Turk mameluck, in the great battle of Chaul, against the portuguese, in 1508.

In an islamic sciences exhibition propsed by UNESCO, they promote the interactive assembly of a crossbow, with the following quotation:

The crossbow
This important instrument of war was greatly developed and described in Arabic military treatises. Replicas of this war device can be made and the enclosed sheets describe the construction of a replica by one hobbyist. : http://www.unesco.org/pao/exhib/islam1.htm

In the XIV siege of Tremecén ( algeria ) the Marini Sultan received reinforcements of archers and crossbowmen from Granada, "used to siege works".
http://www.islamyal-andalus.org/cont...cia.php?id=633

Other tracks could be quoted,but i bother you no longer
kind regards
btw, with this crossbowmania, i ended up buying two beautyfull portuguese quarrels ( square sectioned bolts ), one from the XIV century and one from the XV, this one with a thicker neck, already for the steel arch model.

i just couldn't manage ( again ) to upload the aquarels of magrebi crossbowmen and the picture of a beautyfull cavalry crossbow, from the guard of portuguese King Dom Sebastião, beg. XVI century.


http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...OMSEBASTIO.jpg
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...omagrebino.jpg
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...ODOMAHGREB.jpg

Here are Al Tarsusi drawings

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...tacircular.jpg
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...thcrossbow.jpg
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...tharossbow.jpg
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...thcrossbow.jpg
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...tacrossbow.jpg