Small axes for ID
 

Picked these up today.
Pretty sure they are a weapon form and not a tool this time! (despite their hammer backs) ;)
Sizes as shown by compasion with my ancient mobile, rather small. Very sharp and well aged.
Punched dot decoration, similar but not a pair.
Shafts are clearly old but not original.
The decoration is in the form of flowers in a vase on both!
Managed to get the head off of the small one, it weighs about 350g.
Any ideas?

Obviously first thought was Indian, but.......
The closest things I can find is this one in Stones, described as:
"Ceylon or Malabar XVIII"

Indian Axes
 

Hard to put them geographically, perhaps Central Indian (Deccan?) going toward the South as you have already stated.

The punch dot decoration tells me victorian (late 19thC) and the 'flowers in a vase' decoration supports that, but the axes themselves look older.

Good find.

Thanks,
Runjeet

Having a think, and I would perhaps edge towards Deccan and the north rather than the south for your two axes. This form and shape of axe head is quite common throughout India, and I think Stone was referring more (although not exactly) to this type:


Thanks,
Runjeet

They look great. How long are the shafts? Cheers

Runjeet,

Thanks for your help. Very much appreciated :)
Would these be classed as saddle axes or something else?

Best
Gene

Hi DhaDha,

At the moment the shafts are a piddly 16 1/2 inches.

Thanks for preempting my next question, What sort of shaft would suit them? Shape, length etc?

I was thinking, more like 20inches?

Best
Gene

Here's one with a small head and a longer shaft from Runjeet's site. 27", if I remember? Love the simple design.

OOh! 27"!!
I feel a couple of hickory tool shafts might be in order.......
Thanks :)

DhaDha,
You have a great memory! I had forgot about that one, yeah it was a nice piece, very elegant. I cannot remember the exact dimensions but 27" works out close to the proportions in the photos.

Gene,
Here is the full image if you want to get a better idea of the detail on the shaft. Thanks both,
Runjeet

I must visit my own site more regularly :o .....the small axe which DhaDha reminded us of is on page two of the Armour and Polearms page, along with another one Gene which you may find interesting.


Thanks,
Runjeet

Hi Runjeet,

Thanks for that, I've got a good idea of what to aim for now.
Just had a look on a certain auction site and there are plenty of 4'-5' o Staffs in a variety of wood, that should make a good pair of shafts for these.
:)
Thanks again.
Best
Gene

Musandam Axes
 

Nice axes you have. I collect arabian axes from the Mussandam peninsular, at the gateway to the Gulf. The tribal group there (Shihuh) have an axe which doubles up as a walking stick utility item/defensive weapon and badge of office icon. It appears to originate from the Persian Luristani axe. The shaft almost 3 feet long and various sizes of axehead from about 2 inches long to about 3 and a half.

Hi Ibrahiim,

Very impressive collection you've got there!
Interesting that one of yours has a very similarly shaped distinctive 'hammer' back to the ones on mine (below)

Best
Gene

These are European. East European. Hungarian/Romanian or other east European herders weapon tools.

C'mon Tim

European is OK, but herders weapons!!!
;)

Do you have any references or examples?

Best
Gene

The stippled decoration on the axe face, I agree with Runjeet, does seem to correspond to this kind of decoration in India in later period, 19th century. It should be noted that it is also a characteristic of markings on the weapons in Bikaner armoury in Rajasthan, which simply reveals that the punched dot style for decoration and inscription was popular in these regions....I am not suggesting these are from Bikaner, nor armoury applied, only the style of decoration.

I recall seeing the small head, long shaft type utilitarian walking axes that Tim has mentioned for Eastern European regions, as well as similar as mentioned by Ibrahim on the Arabian peninsula.

While serving as walking staffs these certainly would double as weapons much in the sense of the well known sword canes of Europe....so you're right Gene, I think you got a weapon here :) I think shorter shafts would simply indicate more of a belt axe.

All best regards,
Jim

The tulip motif seen here is a very standard decorative pattern on Hungarian and Romania "folk art" these look like very nice old pieces. Rural folk would have decorated items like this to chop wood and hammer things way before B&Q DIY stores. I do not have pictures of the very same axes but lots of pictures showing the style and decorative devises used to decorate and make jolly all sorts of domestic items. Folk art is very sought after.

The tulip motif is a highly favored Ottoman device which was favored as well in earlier Mughal courts, but the tulip rage in the 17th century certainly carried influences from the Netherlands far across Europe, and as noted was key in folk art context in Eastern Europe. Im not sure whether that would be connected in any way, but the tulip as motif was definitely widespread and notable.

:eek:
Would it be useful if I cleaned one up to show clearer pictures?

Thanks everyone :)


Jim, the short shafts on them are rubbish, clearly been on them for a while, but nowhere near as old as the axes.

I scoured the car boot sales today for vintage gardening tools and got two 40+ year old long handled Hoes with beautiful straight grained shafts.
Both 4'+ long :)

Which will be good if we can 100% positively ID these so I can remake the correct shafts.
They are so distinctive with the punched decoration and octagonal to circular hammer backs.
Both are very similar but different, so I'd venture that they may well be representative of a specific ethnographic type, rather than possibly just an atypical pair.
Interestingly, one has dot decoration all across the face of the hammer and around it randomly 'peppering' the surface.
So I'd guess that at least the hammer part is not meant to be used as a tool?

You have not shown the handles. Here are a few pictures of Hungarian folk art. I could add lots more. Agreed the tulip is also seen on Ottoman artefacts but I do not think what we have here is the case.

Hi Tim,

The handles at the moment are just short bits of plain wood roughly fitted.
Completely wrong. :(

Best
Gene

This picture looks like the original handle. A household kindling cutting axe with a hammer might only have a simple handle. I think you can buy a hammer axe DIY thing today but nowhere near as pretty or treasured in a non global consumerist society.

Hopefully some better pics (Now I've cleaned them) will be helpful?

I was going to scrub them, but the patina is so deep and dark and old.
It almost seems wrong to take them back to silver metal?

Very nice.

And the shafts (they come off fairly easily and really easily)
One has 'X' wedges, the other nothing.

Thanks mate :)

You see what I mean though, these are SO distinctive that they have to be a distinct recognisable ethnographic type.

Truth is, I'll be gutted if they are a household item (kindling axe!!)!
;)


Best
Gene

Yes Hungarian. :D Whats wrong with that :shrug: . :)

I can see the possibility of Eastern European, but I'm struggling to see them as mere 'utility' axes.
My reasoning:
The shape of the cutting edge and narrowness of the blade doesn't make for good kindling splitting.
The smaller of the two doesn't even have a cutting edge thats parallel to the shaft (see pic below)
Despite the simplicity of the punched decoration, these are quite an elaborate piece of metalworking, far more than I would expect from a ulitity piece.

I don't know, perhaps I just hope that you are wrong on that and they are 'battle axes'.

Best
Gene

I can see no reason why you could not seriously hurt a person with one. :shrug:

Hi Gene,
Illustration from the Chatterbox magazine March 30th 1872 of Roumanian smugglers complete with axe, obviously I can't be sure of the historical accuracy of the illustration. :shrug:
Regards,
Norman.

Hi Gene,

Nice axes!! As a Romanian I'll chime in. I think Tim might be right. I have seen this type of axes in Romania. Sheep herders, woodsmen, etc... I remember one instance we met with a ranger in the forest and he was lamenting not being allowed to carry a rifle, so he had two of these smaller axes at his side and a knife (and lots of dogs :) ) to fend off wolves and bears as well as he could. I don't remember these dot markings though. I will visit Romania later this summer and will make a point of checking.

The similarity to Indian/Persian blades is understandable. The Romanian word for axe "topor" comes from the Indian "tabar" via the Ottomans.

Cheers,
Emanuel

Here are some miscellaneous Romanian axes demonstrating simple punched decoration.

E

Emanuel and Norman, beautifully done on the support for Romanian axes!!!!
Its really great to see suggestions followed through in this way, and show that Tim's well placed and already well supported note via his showing the tulip decoration seem entirely correct. I think the most fun here is when discussions are developed with such supporting material and we all get to learn more together.
Thank you so much guys!!! :)

All the best,
Jim

Tim, Norman and Emanuel
Excellent teamwork there ;)
You've certainly made an argument for a possible eastern European origin.

I still can't help but feel that whatever they are, they are a specific type in their own right, so we should be able to find clear pictures of another example to compare them with.
They are so distinctive.

I'm still on the fence about them.
I can see merit for all of the theories proposed so far, but I think that until we find another identified example to nail them down we won't have a consensus.

I've expanded this request to other collecting forums and similarly, if anyone reading this knows for sure or can show/link to another of these for reference, then please email me at: gimmieitbaby@aol.com

Best
Gene

Would it be worth asking on the Euro side of the forums if these may be from Eastern Europe?

Tim, Emanuel and Norman.

Continuing the quest, I've tried to make or disprove the case for these being Eastern European.......

I've looked for further information on 'Shepherd axes' of Eastern Europe.
'Fokos' in Hungary, other names are: 'valaška', 'ciupaga' etc.

Wiki page "Shepherd's Axe".

The usual form is almost like a long handled Tomahawk, often with a slightly downcurving asymetric blade. This is to allow them to be gripped on the head and used like a walking stick.
After some extensive trawling, I have found a couple of pictures of crescent shaped 'shepherds' axes'. But they usually still allow for a semi-comfortable hand grip on the blade for the above purpose.
Mine feel horrible if gripped in that way, the smaller one especially, combined with the extreme curve of the cutting edge and small size mean that even trying to find a 'comfortable handhold' to test my theory meant that I painfully scraped my hand quite a few times.


Looking through the Wiki page, it makes this point about the shape of these axes, and makes some interesting comments about their decoration (a point already of course made by Tim):

"A shepherd's axe is a light axe with a long and straight wooden shaft, often with a metal butt. The length of the shaft is usually slightly more than 1 metre. The shafts were usually engraved as their owners had plenty of time for crafting.

A small metal head-piece is sharp on one side while the other side is flat and can be used as a hammer. The head-piece is formed to fit comfortably into the hand so the shepherd's axe could be used as a walking stick.

Today's shepherd's axes are mostly decorative, some having golden or silver head-pieces (mostly it`s brass, iron, chromed iron, wood or aluminum - to be true I have never heard of any axe head made of gold or silver). Many are considered works of art (esp. those made up to the 60s by highlanders). They were skillfully stamped/adorned according to ancient tradition. The main motives were the sun, stars (whirl), comets, tree of life, flowers, trees such as fir or spruce, and various geometric designs. Some smiths used many different, elaborated stamps."


One other thing that seems to work against them being this type of axe, is the shape of the shaft hole.
All of the specifically identified 'shepherds axes' and 'walking axes' that I can find have non-circular holes. In fact most have squared off holes for obvious reasons.

However!
The wiki article also mentions that:
"In Hungary, modified axes were also used as martial weapons by Hungarian warriors in the medieval age, used for example in the 18th century in Rákóczi's War for Independence against Austrian soldiers. In the 17th and 18th century, Hungarian Kuruc leader Imre Thököly and his soldiers used shepherd's axes as weapons. Hungarian shepherds in the northern regions used it also as a tool."

I could easily see these as 18thC, could they be one of these 'modified' (weaponised?) forms mentioned above?

Sadly, the best 'paintings' of these Hungarian warriors (Imre Thököly etc) seem to show them with rather fine war-hammers. So not really much help.However, here is a diagram of one of these soldiers with a 'Fokos'
Sorry for the size, but I think that you can see the general shape and size seems to be superficially similar:

Below are the closest photgraphs that I can find of axes purportedly of this type. Similarities for sure, but I can't find anything close:

So, I'm still on the fence here.
It's only when you start searching that you realise just how widespread axes of this general type are and how subtle the differences can be. Across the world for thousands of years.

These certainly seem to share similarites with several distinct ethnographic types.

The Crescent shape and circular shaft hole are commonplace amongst Indian/Indo-Persian axes, which are also often small.
So are they Indian as Runjeet suggested?
There's certainly a compelling argument for that origin.

Are they a 'shepherds axe' or 'walking axe' from eastern Europe?
I'd have to say that on the evidence of them being uncomfortable to hold and having the circular shaft hole, I'd say no they are not.
However, are they one of the specifically weaponised versions mentioned?
Or a 'smugglers axe'......
I'd say Possibly.

Are they an obscure Arab form, such as those from Habban?
Again, there are certain similarities.



:(
It's tasking me now.

Coming in late on this one with my .2 cents. On many of these early axes, the "hammer" was in fact a counter-weight to the cutting edge. It was the same on colonial American trade axes, native American tomahawks, etc. I don't think these were strictly utility, but like the above mentioned axes, were probably both a tool and a weapon. Their thickened, bearded blades very closely resemble many boarding axes of the period sans spike.(again, a tool and in time of need, a lethal weapon) The patterning, although it could be E. Euro, strikes me as E Indian, so-called Hindi-dot pattern. I've seen somethiong like these on the old defunct tomahawks page. Perhaps I can find the link...