Ethnographic Arms & Armour

Ethnographic Arms & Armour (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/index.php)
-   Ethnographic Weapons (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=2)
-   -   Some Help with a Balinese Keris (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=257)

BSMStar 3rd February 2005 04:17 PM

Some Help with a Balinese Keris
 
2 Attachment(s)
Can any one tell me something about this Balinese Keris. Why a silver hilt? and so on... the significants of the Black and Silver sheath... :confused:
Thanks!

ariel 3rd February 2005 04:20 PM

Even for a total ignoramus that I am, this baby is beautiful! Congratulations!

capt.smash 3rd February 2005 04:35 PM

wow thats beautyful.....id give my hind teath for that :)

Mick 3rd February 2005 05:02 PM

BMStar

I am not an expert on these pieces, but I do know a little bit about them. That is a very good piece. I suggest that you clean that varnish or sludgy oil from the blade with generous applications of kerosene and fine toothbushing (the tooth brush will probably fall apart but that is of little consequence). If you don’t have original keris oil you can apply a synthetic gun oil to the blade with an artists brush. (I usually mix keris oil and the synthetic oil 1 to 1 to get both good protection and the proper odor for the blade. I think that this still shows reverence for the blade although purist experts will probably disagree.)

As to why the use of silver and ebony, not everyone has the wherewithal to provide gold and ivory which are the top items for this purpose. The stones look real and are of the proper colors.

LabanTayo 3rd February 2005 05:41 PM

I remember handling this Keris when BSMStar got it. Its probably the nicest Keris I've ever handled. Very nice piece.
BSMStar, would you trade it for a Moro Kris??? :):)

BSMStar 3rd February 2005 06:29 PM

Thank you all for your kind remarks. :D Thank you LabanTayo, you are bound and determined to make me a Moro collector... alais, I seem to have misplaced my money tree. :( But who knows what the future may hold. :rolleyes:

This keris does not have the usual "elephant trunk", does anyone know what this shape is called/means??

The stones are real; one of the sapphires on the back is a "star" sapphire. Usually this type of hilt is mentioned to be gold, so why the investment in silver?

The blade is actually clean, its just showing some oil residue (in the light). The blade appears to be a three metal pamor, the black iron, the nickel and a golden (oxide like) looking metal. I might try to get some better pictures of the pamor.

Thank you all for your help and insight! :)

Henk 3rd February 2005 07:45 PM

This is a beauty indeed.

Don't brush the surface with a toothbrush!!!!! If you clean it the etching might disapear. So don't!! As you said it is residu from oiling and that will disapear in time and oiling the blade prevents it from rusting.

When you make more pictures, make another one of the base of the blade so that we can clearly see the shape of the kembang kacang. Would like to see more of the scabbard too and an overall view of the keris.

And why silver? I think Mick gave the answer. And mostly these keris with ivory and gold were only for the royal families.

Mick 3rd February 2005 08:17 PM

BMStar


The sequence of dress (in regard to metals) goes gold, gold capping, gold plating (originally fire gilding), silver, and copper/brass. Many of the “golden hilts” are actually gilded silver and or gilded copper/brass. This is nothing to be ashamed of as good workmanship is really achieved in all of the metals. Your piece shows good quality workmanship. It is not of the highest quality, but it is damned good. I have seen pure gold pieces which have nowhere near the quality of workmanship as yours. (Seems strange doesn’t it.) People in Bali are still turning out exceptionally fine work as well as some mediocre and the junk brass pieces that are sometimes passed of on eBay as “Golden”.

As far as the other color besides black and white on the blade, I believe that we have resolved (here on the forum) that this is caused by impurities in the wranga used in the etching process.

Henk

Perhaps I didn't make myself clear. I recommended the use of kerosene wiped into crevaces of the blade with a soft (not hard) toothbrush ro get all pieces of dirt off of the blade in order to start protecting the blade with a clean finish. Obviously no toothpaste is to used in this process. Indeed it would polish the patina off of the blade.

BSMStar 3rd February 2005 11:22 PM

Thank you Mick and Henk for you wisdom and input!!!!!!!!!!

I apologize for the poor quality pictures (not enough lighting). I will break out my lights and take better pictures... (busy schedule, but hopefully by this weekend).

I know in Bali, that black and white show the "struggle" or "balance" between good and evil. I have not seen many black sheaths before. :eek: Maybe there is a balance with the silver around the black wood?

My question about the silver Bayu (secretly) is my wondering about the status of the original owner, with the rubies and sapphires (and agates around Bayu's base), it probably didn't belong to your average "Joe".... with the black and silver, what the spiritual background or meaning may be.

Thanks again for your insight, I am on a learning curve with Balinese Keris'.

Mick 4th February 2005 03:52 AM

BSMStar

(I finally got your handle right)

Regarding the sequence of quality of material for sheaths, I think ivory and exceptionally fine pelet wound be a tie for top. Ebony (a rather new material) would probably be next followed by regular pellet . The final grade might consist of everything else.

You are right that there are not a lot of ebony sheaths around. I believe that the wood for this would have to have been imported. I have at least one and maybe two. (My stuff is not easily accessible.)

Your original owner was not a regular "Joe". He put near the top materials on this piece (I assume to the best of his ability) and the grip might even have been once gilded. It doesn’t look like it from the picture, but you might find some traces in the deep portions of the figure.

Sang Keris 4th February 2005 02:46 PM

i think u can make a good warangan can make it perfect.....need more contrast...

but overall.. its great..


congrat

BSMStar 5th February 2005 04:17 PM

More Pictures
 
6 Attachment(s)
I am sorry about the quality... but here are some more pictures..., let me know if you need more.

capt.smash 5th February 2005 11:25 PM

Drool................................ :)

Rick 5th February 2005 11:31 PM

Me too ! :D Drool ........ ;)
Great contrast to the pamor !
The luks are so graceful .
Oh to own one like it < sigh >

Henk 6th February 2005 01:41 PM

I was reading, well reading....looking pictures in a book about Lombok Keris. It is in the Indonesian language, so that's why I was looking pictures .

There was a drawing of a keris that had the same dapur as this one. Unfortenately no description about the prabot because the chapter was about pamor. It is not an uncommon prabot and can be found in literature. A shame they didn't use a line to name the dapur. :( I found also pictures about the same style of dress. Carefully I would say that this keris is from Lombok.

Anyway, it is a beauty!!! Thanks for sharing.

Alam Shah 6th February 2005 02:09 PM

Title of book.
 
Henk,
If you don't mind, could you let us know the title of the book that you are 'reading'. This should help in updating our knowledge.;)

BSMStar 6th February 2005 05:42 PM

Wowwwww!
 
Now that was a curve I did not expect! :confused: ... LomboK?

That would really put me back to "square one" since I know even less about Lombok Keris. The joys of collecting!

Henk 6th February 2005 09:35 PM

Alam Shah,

Sorry, that was not too smart. To mention reading a book and not telling wich one. It is "Keris (di) Lombok" by Ir. H. Lalu Djelenga

BSMStar 8th February 2005 01:54 PM

Bima or Bayu
 
I have seen this hilt IDed as Bayu.... but also as Bima (see link)

Bima
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/taman.sari/k...kiran_bali.htm
Bayu
http://www.ethno-museum.ac.at/en/col...a/indon2l.html

Are they the same or different deities?

Mick 8th February 2005 04:44 PM

BSMStar

It's Bayu. The attribute is the Amrita held in the right hand accross the chest.

I have a Hanuman with the Amrita for which I haven't figured the reason. Hanuman is recognized by the tail that curls up over the top of his head.

Bima is a hero. Batara Bayu is a God. The "God of Winds" if my memory serves me right. He is also the father of Hanuman (the White Monkey General).

BSMStar 8th February 2005 06:20 PM

Thank you Mick,

That is what I thought. The thread on your awesome hilt (like your Avatar) had the link to the Bima hilt which looked a lot like this one. Thank you for clearing that up for me! :D

John 9th February 2005 05:08 AM

On Bayu or Vayu, the god of wind.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick
BSMStar

It's Bayu. The attribute is the Amrita held in the right hand accross the chest.

Bima is a hero. Batara Bayu is a God. The "God of Winds" if my memory serves me right. He is also the father of Hanuman (the White Monkey General).

Still reasonably fresh from my reading of the Mahabaratha (Indian version) pertaining to Mick's other thread. If I remembered correctly, the "god of wind" is called Vayu and he was the god Pandu's wife kunti invoked for the conception of Bima, primarily for strength (Pandu was a celibate). So I presume Bayu is the Balinese version (spelling) of the god of wind.

BSMStar 9th February 2005 06:44 PM

Vayu/Bayu
 
Thank you John and Mick.

As you can tell, I am relatively new to the forum... and a new student to the Balinese/Lombok/Hindu cultures. :) Your help is greatly appreciated!! :D

Boswego 10th February 2005 01:03 AM

I just got my first Kris recently-as a total rookie I'd like to ask a crass question-how much does a beautiful piece (just a general price range) like this go for ? Sorry to be so crude but i have to start saving my pennies now and know zero about sword values !
P.S.-Hope I'm not breaking any rules by being so nosey-Thanks.

Rick 10th February 2005 01:25 AM

Boswego, discussion of value is not allowed here . :(

Bali kerisses of this quality are highly prized .

Boswego 10th February 2005 05:52 AM

Rick & Everybody-My apologies,sorry to ask about value,that is one mind boggling Keris !


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:38 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.