Gilded and painted Keris for viewing
 

I have had this piece sitting aside for some time now and it has sparked a lot of interest with fellow collectors I speak to externally from the forum so I thought others would also like to view it.
Although my knowledge is very limited in comparrision to the knowledge base here, I know what I like and painted scabbard Keris are something I have always found very appealling and will continue to put these painted examples aside in my collections.
Here is an example I favour very much, the scabbard is gilded and painted, the blade is unusual in form and the pamor is what I beleive to be expertly controlled.
Comments and input is most welcome.

Gav

Hey Gav,
How about a full picture of the blade . ;)

The painting ... nice .

Full blade.
 

;) Rick, Full blade image, though it doesn't quite show the pamor following the edge in layers all the way to the tip....

Gav

Nice.

These Bali sunggingan are really pretty scarce.

I mean really scarce.

Wow, thank you Alan, I knew it was a good thing when I found it but hearing that makes it ace! They are beautiful.

Do you think in a previous life the hilt would have been painted/gilded? Or is it more typical to have them left as it currently sits?

Best regards

Gav.

In the Balinese ones I've seen the hilt seems to bear no relationship at all to the wrongko.

The blade
 

Gents,

Another aspect that drew me to this piece was the blades quality.

I know there are many different representation of style in this area of the blade but this shape is new to my eyes. An almost human like shape to one side and flames rising on the other?

Not being very savy with keris terms, does the unusual form of the blade at the forte inticate anything in particular such as region in Bali, age of the blade or status of the owner?

Best regards

Gav

Agree, the pecetan (Jawa term) seems to be executed a bit differently . :confused:
The luks seem a little strange .

Otherwise, are you referring to the pamor ?

The blade;
 

Rick,

In general just the first four inches from the hilt as a whole I find interesting and unusual, the "fullers" the shapes, dips and curves.

I think for me, differentiating pamor or the subtle luks is beyond my understandings to be able to grasp fully, :confused: but I am willing to listen if the information can be offered as it would be interesting to know and it would offer points of reference for my own readings when time permits. Others might also want to know these technical aspects of this piece :shrug:

Best

Gav

It's certainly a nice blade, but i don't find the fullers all that unusual for a Bali blade.
I also have a old Bali sunggingan that i will post in the next day or so. Interestingly mine does have a hilt which has also been painted in relation to the sheath.

Nice to see another
 

Great David,

I look forward to viewing it.

I agree Bali Keris do have fullers similar to this and in these positions but there are subtle differences in the flow and depth of the curves that my eyes are drawn too. It may be nothing but I thought to ask. I'll try to get some comparative images of the other Bali keris blade I have here to see if I can highlight it better. It may just be a case of the pamor on this piece making it look different.

Regards

Gav

I can see nothing unusual at all in this blade.

The garap is fair average quality for a Bali blade of this vintage. There are minor artistic shortcomings that really do not bear mention, and can simply be written off as the maker's style.

To my eyes its just a pretty usual sort of old Bali blade.

What makes the whole thing nice is the old blade + old sunggingan in pretty good condition + the sunggingan is well preserved + the blade has what appears to be a nice old stain + the hilt is not bad either. As a total package its pretty nice and very scarce.

OK, i did manage to find a couple of photos that i already took of this sheath. I will have to take some more to show the whole sheath and the whole hilt. You can see the the hilt has some of the same red paint as the sheath. The pommel is similarly painted. Not in as good condition as Gav's but i think this one might be just a bit older. :shrug:

Yep. Nice too.

Any of these old Bali sunggingans are very, very collectable.

Another painted scabbard and hilt
 

Another I secured recently, still to be posted to me, new or old I couldn't say but the wear looked honest enough without going into too much detail.

I'll submit more images when it arrives.

Thanks for posting the images David, I really enjoy looking at these pieces something the eyes can enjoy all day.


All the best Gav

PS guys, if you got em show them I would love to see more diverstity in painting or gilding.

all very nice :)

Thanks for sharing.
Here is another, more simple, one as a reference.

Michael

Very hard in Bali to find, in my experience, so nice dress.
(price ...are really very high :shrug: )

This I can confirm! All four are very nice!

Can anyone speak to the place of these painted sheaths culturally? Where these reserved for specific societal stations or could anyone own one? :shrug: :)

We're looking at Bali keris here, I cannot answer this question. However, for Javanese keris, although some particular person, such as cantung balung, or an actor, may wear a sunggingan keris, nobles also wear them on some occasions, the colour of the sunggingan work and pendok being designated to the rank of the wearer.

I've got a pretty fair small collection of quality sunggingan keris, I'm a bit busy right now, but as soon as I get a chance I'll make some pics available

1994 I have seen one in an antique shop in Klungkung for sale. When I come back two days later the owner have rent it to someone who want to be married.

Detlef

In Bali marriage keris are usually the most flamboyant that one can afford. I know one Bali bloke who virtually mortgaged his house to put together a glorious keris for his marriage. Gold, emeralds, rubies --- chocolate layer cake with cream and cherries. After his marriage it took him several years to sell it at a loss. It was offered to me, but I could not afford it.

Another for viewing
 

Another Bali Sunggingan


A better group of images of the one above.

I will enjoy viewing more diversity in these pieces when you get to yours Alan.


Enjoy.

Gav

This is nice art work, but I most sincerely doubt that this type of Balinese sunggingan work is traditional. It is the most popular style for newly done sungging work that is specifically offered to collectors. I have never seen an old sunggingan scabbard with this style of decoration --- or more correctly, I have never seen old sunggingan work of this style.

I would agree this is 20th century work Alan, the presence of a whitish undercoat exposed where some old paint has fallen away, this is what would make me think the same. There is a small sticker to the blade that reads "Antique Blade, hand painted Bali keris".
Needless to say, as you note the art work is nice. it is very detailed and attractive to the eye, well my eye.
Any direction with the blade, it does appear to have nice age to it.

Best

Gavin

Yes, the keris is old, and very probably the scabbard, but I'd guess the sunggingan work as 1970's.

If you examine closely is it watercolour and ink covered by a spray varnish? This method of sungging began to become common in the 1980s.

You're better than me Kiai, I can't tell what materials have been used for the sungging work from a photo, but wouldn't argue about the time frame, 1980's is near enough to 1970's in my book. The point is this:- its not old paint work.

Interesting and quite possible, varnish or lacquer would explain the way in which the paint has flaked and appears rippled in a few small patches.
Being a very time intensive task to create what they have, I'd be interested in seeing or learning more about the processes involved in decorating these sheaths either new or old now I have presented both.

Gav

very nice collection of keris
real nice
i have 3 like that
if i ever get mine photos on the com.
i send them to you
greet jan
:) :) :)

Alan, I am very interested in Bali keris, can you point out where is the minor artistic shortcomings? and what could you expect from the keris above if it is a better quality balinese keris. I know it could be subjective but I want to learn to distinguish small detail garaps that make up the "more than average" keris.

Thx

Gwirya, if I had the keris in my hand, and you were sitting beside me, yes, I could show you the things that could have been done better. However, to try to tell you in writing the individual artistic deficiencies would run to far more than I am prepared to write.

I can make an overall comment, and that is there are curved lines where there should be straight lines, there is a lack of definition, there was probably insufficient time spent on layout before the actual carving started, there is inconsistency in repeated features, there is an overall lack of flow.

Its just not top work from an artistic point of view.

But as I said, these are minor deficiencies and really don't bear mention. Not all makers were great artists, and they did not need to be.

Alan, Which part is where there are curved lines where there should be straight lines?

Thanks

It is not as simple as that, Gwirya.

We are talking micro here, not macro. To adequately answer your question I would need to be sitting with you and point out the defects one by one, and I would be using something small and pointed to do the pointing. Good garap and artistic interpretation in a keris is all about very, very tiny things.

However, there is one area of this keris where the carving has been very badly handled, and it is big enough not to need any particular expertise to identify.

Look at the convergence of the ada-ada - blumbangan - tampingan. From an artistic perspective this is very poor work.

Defects in the kembang kacang puguk are pretty obvious too.

When I look at this blade my feeling is that the maker was struggling, his work does not flow. It is competent work, but there is no artistic feeling to it.

I'm not going to comment any further on this blade.

I did not want to make these comments that I have made. If I had wanted to comment thus, and if I had thought it would have served a useful purpose I would have commented in my earlier posts.

This type of criticism should be reserved for blades where it is obvious that the maker has attempted art.

The maker of this blade has not attempted art and has simply produced a blade of the required form, with no particular attention to art or detail. He has made a weapon.

It is very unfair to criticise something for not being that which it did not set out to be.

Great input
 

Alan,

Thank you for your wonderful and very well worded input on the subject of this Keris.

Since Gwirya has come to this posting asking these questions, in the interest of learning a little more myself I too have a few questions that are or are not answered easily.

Are you able to point to visual aids within the forum pages that can show the "change" for want of a better word, where art and the weapon meet as one? A visual aid may show an essence within lines and features that can be used as a comparision to better understand subtle differences that are hard to speak of.
In an artist light, does the painting and gilding sit in line with the lack of artistic detail to the blade or does it "mask" these subtle shortcomings of an artistic nature.

Thank you for your learned input.

Gav

I Know You Didn't ....
 

....ask me; but I wanted to respond anyway . :)

< insert opinion here >

I would think that the paint and gilding certainly helped to sell the keris . ;)
IMO the luks seem ungainly where they could have been so much more gracefully executed by a better smith .

Aesthetically, I hear a mental 'clank' when I view the entire blade . :(
Gav, I do not mean to offend; its just my opinion mate .

Regardless of the aesthetics of the wilah it is an old and rare piece and needs to be respected for what it is . :)

Thanks for the guidance Alan, it seems pretty clear to me now. At the first time I looked at the blade, It seemed like a nice old blade with good metal ( padat and halus) but there is something a little off which I didnt know what it was.
@Rick, maybe the empu was to old to make such detail in refining the blade ricikan artistically. even Pak Sukamdi now cannot make a keris as nice as he used to, as his hand trembles.

Referring to the keris:

Perhaps the Maker was not an empu; certainly not all are . :)

I think we should be careful how we apply that designation to makers of keris . :)

Gav, the short answer is "No".

The long answer is this:-

I really only feel competent to talk of "art" and "weapon" in the context of Javanese and Balinese keris. I could probably plough back through past threads and find examples of blades where I consider that a keris which appears to have been made as a weapon also displays artistic qualities of high degree. But I'm not going to do this because I have no interest in the exercise and because it would use far, far too much time. I do not keep references of threads in the warung, and in fact I keep almost no reference system of my own records, I treat each thing as it arises, and I run on memory.

I suggest that if you feel inclined to run back through old threads to search for a keris where weapon meets art, it might be best to concentrate of threads that deal with Balinese keris, rather than Javanese keris. I do recall seeing several very good Balinese blades in past posts, that would satisfy the criterian of art + weapon, but the level of Javanese blade needed to show this is a level that I cannot ever recall seeing in any thread. With a Javanese blade you would be looking for probably a tangguh Surakarta blade, pre-1940, that could probably be attributed to a known empu.

Within the standards that I have been taught, only the blade of a keris may be considered as art.

The dress for the blade is considered as craft.

Within the set of standards that I apply, the dress does not relate to the blade. I look at the blade, then I look at the dress. I regard the two things separately. In fact, I regard each element of the keris separately, I do not look at it as a total entity, except in the sense of whether that total entity is pleasing to the eye, or not. When the blade is in the scabbard, I cannot see it, so its function is simply to keep the handle and scabbard together. If these look pleasing to the eye, and are complimentary, the standard is satisfied. However, once the blade is removed from the scabbard I focus on the blade, and if I look at the dress it is appraised separately to the blade.

Gwirya, yes, it is a nice old blade. All blades do not need to be superb works of art. In fact they do not need to be any sort of work of art. A blade that has little artistic merit can be a superb weapon. A blade that has little value as a weapon, and little artistic value can have an essence that can be physically felt. Its not all about art --- as some people these days seem to think.

As to the reason why this blade under discussion is a little less than excellent as an art work, well, we could hypothesise all day on that:- old maker past his prime, new maker under development, experienced maker with little skill, talented maker working on a low budget --- lots of possible reasons, and from my perspective, the reason doesn't matter in the slightest degree.

When everything is boiled down, its a nice old Bali blade of slightly less than good artistic merit; it has been dressed in a style that is very scarce and is rarely seen , either in Indonesian collections, or in collections outside Indonesia. All in all, it is an asset in any collection.

End of story.

PS--- my original post #4 probably says all that needed to be said about this keris.