Ethnographic Arms & Armour

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-   -   Ukiran material id? (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=25226)

Patje1970 19th August 2019 10:02 AM

Ukiran material id?
 
9 Attachment(s)
Does anyone recognize the material from this ukiran, based on this photo's?


regards Pat

Sajen 19th August 2019 10:51 AM

The hilt look very recent to my eyes. Recent hilts from Bali are often carved from moose horn. Difficult to be certain by the look to pictures on a screen.

Regards,
Detlef

Jean 19th August 2019 10:51 AM

Not easy, it seems to have some age, the materials is strong/ solid, not from bone, does not seem from ivory (black spots), so my best guess is deer antler.
Regards
PS: Moose antler is a strong possibility as advised by Detlef.

Patje1970 19th August 2019 10:52 AM

More detailed pictures
 
6 Attachment(s)
See more photo's below

Patje1970 19th August 2019 10:54 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jean
Not easy, it seems to have some age, the materials is strong/ solid, not from bone, does not seem from ivory (black spots), so my best guess is deer antler.
Regards


Mayby Spermwhale ?

Jean 19th August 2019 10:59 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patje1970
Mayby Spermwhale ?


The patina & colour do not look like spermwhale tooth from the pics.

Patje1970 19th August 2019 11:04 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jean
The patina & colour do not look like spermwhale tooth from the pics.


thanks for the info

Jean 19th August 2019 12:05 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patje1970
thanks for the info


Other opinions are welcome of course. I attach for reference a semi old Dayak carving made from local deer antler (not moose) with a similar patina & colour (but your piece looks a bit darker from the pics).
Regards

Patje1970 19th August 2019 12:54 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jean
Other opinions are welcome of course. I attach for reference a semi old Dayak carving made from local deer antler (not moose) with a similar patina & colour (but your piece looks a bit darker from the pics).
Regards



Nice Carving Jean, thanks. Indeed my piece is a bit darker

David 19th August 2019 03:52 PM

Well, first off, while i believe this hilt is a contemporary, non-traditional form, i personally find it very appealing. :)
I don't think it is ivory (certainly not elephant or whale) and it doesn't look anything like the moose antler that many modern Bali carvings are done with. It could be some other type of antler or dense bone.
What does it feel like? is it heavy or light? Does it feel cool to the touch?

Patje1970 19th August 2019 04:39 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by David
Well, first off, while i believe this hilt is a contemporary, non-traditional form, i personally find it very appealing. :)
I don't think it is ivory (certainly not elephant or whale) and it doesn't look anything like the moose antler that many modern Bali carvings are done with. It could be some other type of antler or dense bone.
What does it feel like? is it heavy or light? Does it feel cool to the touch?


Hi David,

It feels cool when touching it, In hand it feels a little heavy, even the weight is only approx 128-130 gram. Don't know if it helps, there is a very vague what "saulty" like smell on it.

regards Pat

Jean 19th August 2019 05:27 PM

Personally I don't think that this hilt is very recent (say less than 10-15 years) or the ageing process was very professionally made! (blackened cavities, etc.). Can you remove the selut? Is there a sign that there is added materials under the selut or inside the pesi hole (look for a transition line with a flashlight), or it is one piece with the hilt? Very nice carving anyway!
Regards

Patje1970 19th August 2019 07:54 PM

5 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jean
Personally I don't think that this hilt is very recent (say less than 10-15 years) or the ageing process was very professionally made! (blackened cavities, etc.). Can you remove the selut? Is there a sign that there is added materials under the selut or inside the pesi hole (look for a transition line with a flashlight), or it is one piece with the hilt? Very nice carving anyway!
Regards


Hi Jean, I cannot remove the selut. Only some pictures from the inside. So far I see it. Seems dense bone ore some kind of antler.

I agree with you that is not very recent, I loved the carving, that's why I bought this one.

regards Pat

Battara 20th August 2019 12:42 AM

Could this have been artificially aged?

Rick 20th August 2019 01:48 AM

I think it's entirely possible Jose.
Doesn't look like natural aging to me at all.
If there were evidence of tiny pits I'd think it was a casting that was hand finished. :shrug:

Patje1970 20th August 2019 08:38 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick
I think it's entirely possible Jose.
Doesn't look like natural aging to me at all.
If there were evidence of tiny pits I'd think it was a casting that was hand finished. :shrug:



I don't think it's a casting. material seems more like antler or bone. The selut attachted is from metal. I don't see evidence of tiny pits. If it is aged it was very professionally made (blackened cavities, etc.)

A. G. Maisey 20th August 2019 12:45 PM

Patje, I think I'd be inclined to do a hot needle test with this hilt.

Rick 20th August 2019 02:43 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patje1970
I don't think it's a casting. material seems more like antler or bone. The selut attachted is from metal. I don't see evidence of tiny pits. If it is aged it was very professionally made (blackened cavities, etc.)



Another clue you gave was the impression of heavyness and being cool to the touch. Then there is the matter of all the 'gunk' in the crevices.
When I was first collecting kerisses I received a very intricate Madura hilt; it too felt heavy and cool to the touch also with lots of gunk in the crevices. I figured I would clean it up and in doing so discovered it was a casting made from some kind of heavy non natural material and aged quite professionally.

I'll be interested in what you discover when you do a bit of testing.


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