Tourist or Real Deal?
 

These small brass/bronze "Indo/Persian" primer flasks seem relatively common, as they come up in auctions quite often. They have a screw plug at the "fat" end which would suggest that they are in fact made for use. The flask bodies are covered with Arabic script, which is NOT the same on all.
My feeling is that they are made for use, but what is the general feeling from Forum Members please?
Stu

Hi Stu,
I was thinking like you.
They are very common and in good condition.
I don't know if they were used or not, but I'm pretty sure that they are from the beginning of the 20th c. They look similar to some tourist daggers from this period... Rick or Bandook have probably the answer.
Best,
Kubur

The issue on these items is age 20th century is more appropriate. Flintlocks were still being used thru this time. Tourist stuff has to be somewhat flashy to sell. It does not mean that it is worth much, quality is quality. dreck is dreck.

Hi Ward,
So I take it that in your view these were made to be used, rather than to sell as tourist items, which is really the question I was asking?
I have no doubt that they are not that old, as you say 20th century.
Stu

I changed my mind. I spot one with a date 1866.
They are all from Turkey. Maybe some stuff from regular Ottoman army??
I hope that a member has a proper answer...

GREETINGS
THE ONES POSTED HERE LOOK LIKE 50s-60s MADE,SO I WOULD SAY VINTAGE BUT NOT ANTIQUES,TURKEY LIKE INDIA AND MORROCO HAVE LOTS OF REPRODUCTIONS AS TOO MUCH DEMAND FROM THE TOURIST MARKETS/SOUKS .PLEASE CHECK EBAY AND ONE WOULD SEE 1000s OF FAKE INDO-PERSIAN ARMS COMMING OUT OF INDIA,CHEERS

You are probably right Rajesh. It's easy to copy a date on a touristic object.
Are they touristic objects from Turkey or Iran?

We get into a yes and no answer on items like these. let us say you have 5 of these primers in the souq. 2 get sold to goat farmers,1 to some rebel in the hills, and 2 to tourist. Is the piece tourist or not? These are functional.

Some of the pistols, knifes, and swords sold in the souq would not stand the first use without being seriously damaged or destroyed. Those particular items are obviously made for just decoration and sold to tourist.

Yemen daggers are another example of this. Men have worn these for years and I am sure the same craftsman that sold to them also sold to tourist.

Well well, first tourist items don't need to be flashy. You mix two things, tourist items from the end of the 19th or early 20th. These items were of a very good quality, we can even put in this category some late Qajar weapons. Tourist items nowadays are flashy and for half of them made in China. These powder flasks are interesting and I think this thread is very exciting. They look functionnal. They are functionnal for you. Not for me, but I'm always ready to change my mind with good arguments. To finish I post some tourist daggers, with exactly the decoration that you can find on these powder flasks.

Ward, I think you are saying that if an item was made for an intended purpose/use, and it happens to be bought by a collector/tourist then it is still a valid artifact from that culture. Therefore, if it was not made for an intended use, it is a piece of commercial decorative art that may have some value but is not the real deal. Is that correct?

This is an issue that has been debated by antique collectors, dealers and artists for years and I have not heard a consensus emerge. Perhaps this is an issue we could address in a separate thread if you would like to start one.

Ian.

antoher one in my library.

Yes Ian that is a good summary. The line drawn on tourist or not is iffy at best.

I believe that knife would be hard pressed to keep a sharp edge. So I would classify that item as decorative.

A lot of qajar weapons fall into the religious festival use so again a iffy subject. Other cultures have their own various reenactments or celebrations.

Thanks Gentlemen
 

Thanks all who replied here. I am happy with the answer that as these are functional items, and that they are not SPECIFICALLY made for the tourist trade.
I will follow with interest Ward's new post.
Stu

Hi Stu.
Now look what you've gone and done. You re-opened this can of worms. LOL!! :D
Seriously, it's a great question that will probably be discussed around collector camp fires for more years to come. And yes, it's probably worthy of it's own Thread.
The answer(s) could be "all of the above". These flasks seem to fall in three "general" catagories. 1. Genuine antique items, say pre-1920's that were made of enough quality to be functional, yet could also be sold to a tourist. 2. Items made in the last three quarters of the 20th Century to be sold primarily to tourists. 3. Then there's everything else made from the late 20th Century through today. Many of the metal flasks I see for sale today look as if they were made from wax castings of an original. And they are even reasonably well made and functional, but just not old, or carried by a warrior.

Here are some pics of a well made - but still a Tourist item. Have no idea how old it is, but I'm guessing it's about mid 1950's or so. There are two reasons I know this is a tourist item. 1. The strap is made of tight woven, but thin cotton. Which produces more vivid colors, but not as strong as wool. 2. The most important feature is that if you poke a pencil dowm the spout, it is not drilled through to the base of the flask body. So there's no way to add powder.
Rick.