Bar Shot ex-Visser Collection
 

Only one piece complete.

Sold Bonhams 2007.

Michael

An illustration of ca. 1560 picturing chain shot and a shell .

Michael

This specimen was sold for 555 euro on Ebay in April 2009. It does not actually look very old to me, telling from the patina, maybe 19th century.

m

Yet another awesome piece, Michael. Thanks for posting it. I had a question...
In your experience, have you ever seen a piece of barshot of the type with disc ends that had a round bar vs the square bar commonly seen? Kind of like a barbell? From my research, it seems that the French favored the kinds with the disc-like ends (think 'hockey-puck') vs the full round (American/Brit) and half round shot ends (Brit). Your thoughts? Also, any indication that factories that made dumbells in the mid-late 19th centuries also produced these? There's a Civil War site that has a small listing of round barshot for sale that are pretty much identical to barbells. They show some age and have black primer like naval items, but then again, most of the weights of this period appear as such, so...?

Hi Mark,

The only bar shot with disc ends I have ever seen was published by Dudley Pope. I posted it earlier above, p. 1.

I am sorry to say that I do not know anything about manufacturing or national preferences of shapes. I just like them the way they are. :)

Michael

Thanks for replying, Michael. Yes, this is a bit of an obscure subject. I do appreciate all the pics you've posted of bar- and chainshot. You just don't see much of it now-adays to find much research on it.

Hi there,

I found this yesterday.

Best,
Michael

i've read many accounts of battles where the writer described seeing the 'low' velocity roundshot cannon balls destroying a whole file of troops, removing limbs, cutting them in half, etc., and even descriptions of new recruits thinking they could catch one as it seemed to be going slow (and losing an arm or a hand) and people losing legs when they tried to stop a slow ball with their foot. i seem to recall a crimean description of similar instances where troops were warned not to try this foolishness, and photos of hundreds of cannon balls that had rolled back down the hill. at waterloo wellington lost a few generals, one lost a leg next to wellington to a cannonball, and said 'excuse me sir, i seem to have lost my leg'. another had his horse cut in half by one.

roundshot was deliberately aimed to strike before advancing troops so it would skip and take out the whole file. troops prayed for soft ground that would absorb the shot without skipping.

along with grape, cannister, and langridge, as well as the thousands of musket balls flying about, i'm surprised at how few actually were wounded or killed, even tho it was in the thousands at such battles, many more made it, and in most cases disease actually killed more than firearms.

Michael thank you for that stunning photo and shown with the open book to set wonderful context, its great to see this thread revived and on such a fascinating topic.

Kronckew, thank you for this dynamic perspective and it is great to get a more realistic picture, though gruesome, of how warfare was in those times. I think one of the best books I ever read on the subject was "The Face of Battle" by the late John Keegan of Sandhurst. He truly showed the nature of human reaction in terrible combat situations, and it is so interesting to better understand how people thought and responded in these circumstances.

I think I mentioned before in this thread or elsewhere, my great grandfather who was a Civil War veteran in reading one of his accounts in a newspaper article recounting his memoirs, when asked if he was ever wounded responded, "..nah, got hit by a cannonball at St.Petersburg but didn't hurt me none!". Naturally thoughts were was this simply embellished hyperbole of an extremely old soldier? or might this have been an extraordinarily 'spent' ball bouncing along as described. I always thought it was a curious tale :)
Much better perspective on it now .

All very best,
Jim

Hi Michl,

Strange device; is it actually a chain shot set ?
Not certainly a prison chain ...
But it looks a bit odd for chain shot ... or am i short sighted ? :o :eek:

Thanks a lot for you inputs, Jim, Kronckew and 'Nando, ;)

I was sent this image about two years ago by an East German antiquarian book deealer (sedulitas) and they assured me that both the ball and chain illustrated were a half ball from a chain shot, and they were not willing to sell it. They regarded it as kind of permanent historical decorative basis for advertisimg their old mss. So that's all I can telly you, folks, sorry though I am. :eek:

Best,
Michael

What about the leg cuff and padlock on the right of the ball?...

Brilliantly observed! :)
I overlooked these important items ... :o That of course makes it a ball and chain.

Best,
Michael

So many times for the early types of barshot, one sees the four-sided bar attached to two cylindrical balls. I have heard others say that the classic barbell type with round bar and balls existed, perhaps late 18th/early 19th century? I have what I believe to be one of these types and will post pics. The only other thing one might say is that it is so-called "early strongman circus barbell type", but mine seems to fit the pattern of barshot better. :shrug:
Does anyone have any arsenal pics or museum artifacts showing this type? I've been researching this area for awhile, but not alot of indepth info out there...

I never thought of it this way, but since you put it, I think of a problem: if you load a cannon of sort with a proper diameter "barbell", you get a projectile more than twice the weight of the regular cannon ball: 1ball+bar+1ball; so you need much more powder with the danger of exploding your cannon. The bar shots I'm aware of are consisted of two half-balls connected via simple or extending (sliding) bar, so the weight is just marginally higher.

Point well taken, but I have seen fully round barshot, not the half shot popular with British and American ships. It's just that the full shot always seem to have the square bars, yet many contemporary sources will show penciled sketches of barshot looking exactly like barbells (i.e. with a rounded bar). Michael shows one example above in close-up of what appears to be what I'm speaking of, but it is broken and consists of just the ball and a partial stub of a round bar. Can anyone find other examples??

http://marinhadeguerraportuguesa.blo...de-lisboa.html




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Thanks, Fernando. I had some old sites showing potential barshot for which I'm speaking, but upon trying to upload sites and pics from them, none still work- :mad: :(

Trying again-
www.submerged.co.uk/cannonballs%205%20big.jpg
http://www.travelmuse.com/articles/o...unken-treasure

Attachments...maybe?! The second reported to be War of 1812 with provenance from battle site.

The Ebay example looks a but phoney to me :confused:
Looking more like a lifting weight, or other sort of thing :o

How do you like this drawing, Mark ?
The barshot style, "Palanqueta" for the Portuguese, goes in your favor ;).
It comes in a site dedicated to the Portuguese (independence) Restoration War, 1640-1668.

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Hi Mark and 'Nando,

I liked your contributions - thanks a lot, guys! ;)

Best,
Michael/Michl

Of course, you are probably right, 'Nando. I was hoping that eBay piece might be legit, because as of now, it is the type of which I speak. My piece is similar, so could be a very old dumbell, but the jury is still out. Most dumbells were marked in some way, either on the individual balls or on the bar. These marks could include patent numbers, maker marks or weight size. Likewise, the old cast iron types, referred to among collectors of such as "circus strongman barbells" typically had..huh hum...huge balls with a very short bar between them just big enough for one hand. Likewise, frequently the bar itself would flair in the middle to allow a better grip.

Barshot had continued use all the way up until the American Civil War and it seems that by this point, the barshot (of the early/mid 19th) might have taken on more of the classic dumbell shape with rounded bar. That being said, this is my "thesis" only and still waiting for some concrete proof in the way of said examples. Anybody??? :D

Now these two definitely don't seem right to me. The museum piece, supposedly Rev War, is a hand weight. Note how the bar swells in the middle for a grip. The other piece is also obviously a dumbell with no particular amount of age to it. The bar is also too thin...
http://www.revolutionarywarmuseum.co...nnon/main.html

http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedi...nball-74489003

According to (translating) Memories for an Artillery Officer in Campaign, the palanqueta (barshot) bar should have 10 1/2 inches. This is a very interesting work on artillery, put up in 1778, and was digitized by the New York Public Library, now available through Google, but its (portuguese) text was not translated.
BOOK
it contains the description of the inumerous types of shot (PAGE 96). Unfortunately it doesn't detail the shot bar cross section, but the term (perno = unthreaded bolt) takes us to consider that the bar is cylindrical.
Browsing the term palanqueta (barshot) one finds that this type of device was vastly used by the Portuguese. I have read about a few coast fortifications stocking these things by the hundred ... but no pictures yet :shrug:

Once again, I'm amazed at your resources, Fernando. That description does seem to leave alittle room for a rounded bar. Now that I know the term 'palanqueta', I will try to do some research.

Here's a real one (sorry, Moderators, couldn't download pics from this closed auction). Square barred, but at least it has the full round balls-
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bar-Shot-Can...-/300601305058

Pulling all the stops here, gentlemen. From much research over the years, I did turn up this interesting site. Note the cannonball with the raised area where once a round bar might have been before it was cut down? (It's the 15th item down). That's what the site says and mentions Keeler Tavern with the same type of cannonball embedded in it (funny, the pic doen't seem to support it, but anyway, take a look...
www.minutemantreasures.com/5139/11401.html
http://keelertavernmuseum.org/keeler...ome/battle.php

Did you know tat barshot was also called "angels" ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Cannon_bullets.png
http://www.americanrevolution.org/artillery.html

Here's a picture of various "multi use" shot, this time from George C. Neumann's Illustrated Encyclopedia (Page 12). Some of them have round connections.

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AWESOME!!! Finally, a nod if not absolute proof that these things came in all shapes and sizes. I have several of Neumann'sa books, but none with this illustration. Thank you, my friend!! I'm really attached to these types of specialized naval shot. Yes, I had heard them called 'angels', while the round bar with the flaired ends have another name that slips my mind at the present. Here's one recovered from a military site-
http://images.ourontario.ca/niagarah...1/image/176968

One of this type was on the Pass Cavallo shipwreck in TX and thus, some believe this type of shot was popular with Spahish ships. This opinion was seconded on another site concerning another wreck.

Speaking of shipwrecks, one of the most informative sources I've yet found are on actual archaeology sites with surviving examples. These papers are like free down-loadable books with exacting information on the length, construction and origin of patterns. For future historians who are interested in this thread, I wanted to attach 3 such sites with info. The first, based on the dive of the French ship Machault (Fernando, you recently posted a pic on another thread about boarding axes with this ship in context). This article by Douglas Brice is long, but absolutely worth it concerning the differing construction (solid cast, cast balls with full bar, etc)-highly recommended.

http://www.sha.org/research_resource...20Machault.pdf

www.history.navy.mil/branches/UA_Penobscot.pdf

http://repository.tamu.edu/bitstream...-Borgens-1.pdf)?sequence=1

Excellent inputs, guys!

Please hang on! :)

Best,
Michael

Even not aspiring to be an historian, this material is always precious for one's general culture.
But i also enjoy it in that, being you defending the thesis that barshot shaft cross section is not only square but also round, you are now to deal with it also ... hexagonal ;) :cool: :eek: .

... If you don't mind my (Latin) humour :o .

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Touche, my friend. What's next, a triangular bar? My personal favorite is the deadly 'tiki bar'- :p :D :rolleyes:

Sorry, have been away. Actually, Fernando, upon thinking seriously ( :cool: )about your comment, you do make an important observation that these things had all different styles and shapes (Neuman has one above that looks like it has door knobs for weights!). I've seen the square bars on the full/half shot types, round bars on expanding bar shot and now octogonal on the type previously mentioned. With such variety, it might be hard to pin-point all the types. I'm going to post pics of mine soon...

Site deleted/no longer valid. Too bad as it had some interesting barshot, including an alleged "exploding" barshot. Oh well... :( :shrug:

Here goes...
The piece measures 13" long total, ball diameter 11", bar length alone is 6", and bar is 4 1/2" wide. In my defense, this piece is unmarked, made of forged iron with balls braised to the bar. forging flaws are evident. Patina is chocolate brown. A 2 lb and 4lb cannon ball in pic for comparison. The only thing that didn't come out well in the pics is the roundness of the balls. The pics make them look more ovoid, but in real life they are as round as any of the other artillery shot I have. My argument is that this is what barshot looked like toward the mid/late 19th c. Easier to make than the hand-wrought square barred type of the previous century- :shrug:
Dumbells were typically marked, cast as one piece, just as often made of steel than iron, and didn't have bars this thick or long.

Hi Mark,

Very interesting additions, thank you!

Yeah, mid-19th c. would also be my guess.

Best,
Michael

Thanks, Michael. And thank you for starting this discussion and much of the materials herein. Hopefully, I can acquire an older piece at a later time, but in the meantime, I love coming back to this thread. Perhaps this one might be added to the 'Sticky' section? :D :shrug:

Hi Mark,
I would adventure to suggest, within the whole of my ignorance, that your item might not be a barshot; i don't know, the proportions of the bar (thickness+length) in relation to whole setup ... the way it is connected to the balls. But don't pay much notice to my impressions :o .
I like that solid shot wooden base, by the way ;) .