interesting jambiya on eBay
 

Just finished on eBay but I forgot to bid :( . Looks like the hilt is wood the whole packacge seems a mix of Yemen and or Omani ?

Hey Lew,

I got this one. Fittings seem to be of average quality but really like the blade. More of it will come once I recieve it.

Salaams Lew, Interesting potential mixture with what looks like a 7 ringer Omani to me ~ with an odd blade ~ that could be Indian. I think the blade has some quality to it. The scabbard and dagger are, it seeems, matched going by the silverwork. It could be a Royal Khanjar (sa'idiyyah khanjar) but with much of the usual silver adornment gone from the hilt. See my thread "The Omani Khanjar" to compare the hilt of a Royal Khanjar . The belt is a simple jebali or bedu work belt. The Khanjar could be a Salalah job or at least used there for a few decades...
The dotted blade could be wootz and perhaps worth polishing. :shrug:
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Recieved it today, here are some photos. Tomorrow I will get proper photos of the hilt and the blade ;-)

The blade is really nice and thick, probably the thickest blade I have seen on an Arabian khanjar or jambiya. Lovely patina on the silver which I wont clean.

Very nice Lotfy.
So now it's in hand can you confirm the hilt material?

Thanks Gene, I can only be sure with a hot needle test. The seller said its wood but it have alot of similarities with horn items and has some weight to it. The back side shows some fiberous octagonal shapes that I couldnt photograph properly without sunlight.

I'll clean the blade too but might not be worth it. Lovely patina on it and no rust.

Nice piece Lofty. :) The handle has the bottom silver missing but I'm sure that you should be able to do something about that. The arrangement of the rings looks original as the silver wire linking them does not appear loose. My guess is definately not Omani as there is no typical scroll decoration. I would guess at either Saudi or Yemeni but from the proximity of the Omani border.
As far as the blade is concerned, if there is not rust, just a light rub with an oiled cloth so as not to remove the patina.
Stu

Thanks Stu, Yep, I can do something about the missing silver. I may take photos and have my Saudi friend take it to a Jambiya maker there maybe.

Took more time in examining the blade, there is some red rust that I should clean off soon. Tiny lines at obscure places.

Included are photos of the blade and hilt, dare I say that there is a chance this would be rhino?

More photos

As adviced by Gav

100% rhino.....

Spiral

Thanks, fits the blade really well ;-)

Good buy Lotfy. Looks like Rhino horn to me as well.
Worth getting that minor piece of silver replaced now for sure :)

Salaams kahnjar1 and A.alnakkas ~ This is one of the most odd looking khanjars I have ever seen. The blade is from where? possibly Syrian? It could be a Bedouin Omani dagger (It certainly looks Omani ~ Not all Omani daggers have scroll work.) I therefor point to beni Rashid or Murrah Bedouin/ Jebali grouping. The Murra movement box touches Oman and reaches as far as Syria. The silver on the top of the hilt comprising a decorated button with 3 floral pointers or leaves would be repeated in the base of the hilt, facing the opposite direction, The supporting pins are there but it is missing.
Note the peculiar wire ring in amongst the body of rings ~ Is this a replacement for the eighth ring? In which case is this, perhaps, a Muscat 8 ringer? If so the hilt has been modified and rounded...perhaps.

It is old ... and I am surprised that it is Rhino but the hot pin test would prove it. There does not seem to be any translucency therefor I point to wood but if it is Rhino it is a bonus.

One other point~ There is actually no such thing as an area or district in Saudia Arabia close to the Oman border exhibiting artefacts etc or vica versa... only sand. No settlements or towns or ancient villages... Have a look at google earth to dispel this myth. The closest cousin to the Omani royal khanjar is in the Jazan region which was in Yemen on the Red Sea but about 100 years ago was integrated into Saudia ... Sea trade probably took the Royal Omani Khanjar design in that direction from Muscat in "about the mid 19th C". after its design by Sheherezad wife of the Omani Sultan.

I believe this Khanjar is originally Omani (either a royal khanjar or a Muscat Khanjar) adopted by a bedouin owner therefor with a lot of plus and minus about it over the years... not least the blade. This Khanjar could have surfaced in Salalah :shrug:

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Notes For an account of the Murrah see; Nomads of the Nomads: The Al Murrah Bedouin of the Empty Quarter [Paperback]
Donald P. Cole.

Thanks Ibrahim.

Rhino is not necessarily translucent.

Neither is wood...but I hope it is Rhino.

It is..... ;)

Actualy Ibrahiim your hot pin method would only show it is horn not timber.

{Assuming the "pin" is a needle with enough residual heat to actualy burn the horn or timber enough to not only leave a permanent scar but but also to raise the fumes.}

Scientificaly one generaly uses ones eyes to percieve the structure of both horn & timber under magnification to identify them.

spiral

Salaams spiral ~ Yes I agree however there is another sense which one can employ...that of the sense of smell and as you probably know Rhino gives off a burnt hair aroma... wood smells like burning wood. One of the other tests using ones scientifically perceived eyes :D is the light test with a bright light to view the translucent effect particularly in aged Rhino which is usually dramatic in the peripherary of the test item.
I still hope we are looking at an old Rhino example. :shrug:
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Bonjure Ibrahim!

Yes I agree that with a sharp edge & very bright light even inner core of rhino with heavy melanin & calcium deposits can have a 1mm of translucency. This is harder on very rounded surfaces of course.

Also this is not a black core but does have years of dirt without the care of oiling, which also promotes the translucency, hence it being more common with age. ;)

One of my points was, identyfying horn by burning as well as bieng destructive doesnt rule out other horn types, they all smell of burning hair. ;)

Beneath the years of dirt no oiling it may be translucent & indeed if set on fire.

But the clear formation structure of this jambiya grip, is rhino horn, I grew up in a family working at importing timber world wide, we had boxes of recognition keys for identyfying timber end grain under magnification. I recognise that this is no timber ;) & the only horn with fiberous orange peel effect on the cross cut end grain is rhino! :eek:

Simple realy...

spiral

Salaams spiral ... I knew that :D and joking apart... I would like to see the basic tests done to determine the material. It would be quite rare to have a Royal Khanjar hilt in Rhino simply because the entire thing is usually covered in decorative filigree silver. On the other hand it tends to swerve the debate toward the Muscat 8 Ringer ~ What it is exactly; I have to say I don't know.
However I think, now, looking at it with magnification you are right ! Rhino. That marks it up about 1000% for quality.
The exact provenance is still a puzzle.... :shrug:

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Not as rare as you think. came across 3 here in Kuwait. Ordered one for a friend from Australia. There are some, but as you said the number of silver makes it hard to notice.

EDIT: And damn do they sell fast. Mainly Saudi's buy them.

Salaams A.alnakkas~ Interesting as that gives a pointer to the Murrah. It would explain the bedu style basic workbelt and the peculiar blade which may be Syrian. If it is Rhino ( and I believe it is ) you have a rare one.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Hmm am not sure about the connection. Most of the Omani Rhino khanjars actually come from Oman to Kuwait recently by some antique dealers or as gifts..

I need to hit the tribes history book and see the movement of Murrah. Btw, do you mean a specific branch, maybe one related to the Murrah's of Qatar?

& value! ;)

Thank you Ibrahim, glad you could see it to. The eyes have it... :)

Spiral

FROM IBRAHIIM'S POST ABOVE
One other point~ There is actually no such thing as an area or district in Saudia Arabia close to the Oman border exhibiting artefacts etc or vica versa... only sand. No settlements or towns or ancient villages... Have a look at google earth to dispel this myth. The closest cousin to the Omani royal khanjar is in the Jazan region which was in Yemen on the Red Sea but about 100 years ago was integrated into Saudia ... Sea trade probably took the Royal Omani Khanjar design in that direction from Muscat in "about the mid 19th C". after its design by Sheherezad wife of the Omani Sultan.


Your point is noted Ibrahiim......As has been stated previously here, the "borders" spoken of are MODERN DAY lines in the sand. I think we are well aware that these modern day countries did not come into being until relatively recent times. I am simply trying to place the POSSIBLE origin of this piece. This is after all a DISCUSSION Forum.

Rhino for sure outer layer has that orange peel look.

Congrats :)

Lew

Ibrahiim

The lack of translucency does not mean its not rhino. It depends on how the piece was cut. I have an old Yemeni jambiya and the horn is dark brown the real test is get a high power flashlight and put up against the hilt it should give off a nice glow. The other way to tell is with a magnifier glass look down at the end of the hilt if you see tight fibrous bundles similar to looking down at a handful of thin spaghetti than it's rhino ;).

Lew

I personaly have found the degree of translucency depends on the darker deposits, { The melanin and calcium content} within the horn Lew ,not the direction of its cut, whichever direction the horn is cut, any translucentcy still remains.

Generaly the lighter the horn colour the greater the translucency.

Dryness, Dirt & lack of oiling also reduce any any apparent translucency.

As an aside, I find it interesting how the different colours of rhino horn are sought after in different parts of the world.

Personaly I rather {like the Bukarans & Nepalese Royalty} prefer the toughest, heaveyist, hardest, strongest & indeed least translucent of then all.

The rarer central inner black core. {The very dark green is also rather nice to but have only ever seen one speciemien.}

The commoner potentialy more jouvenile golds, yellows, oranges, lighter browns etc are very pretty with that lovely glow are much prefered by the Yemmenis, Turks etc.

I understand the Chinese "medicine men" also place vastly different values on the origin, type & colour of horn as well.

Its a Very in depth subject I think, I wish I knew more. :shrug:

spiral

Salaams A.alnakkas ~ Ah the dreaded recent dealer network ... in which case I suspect it has come from Yemen or Salalah. (possibly Muscat) The romantic idea of it arriving by Murrah fades with that... The blade still puzzles me. It could be an 8 ringer modified Muscat Khanjar or a Royal Khanjar that has very much lost its silver hilt decoration. The amazing disclosure that this has a Rhino hilt completely transforms the dagger. You may be in a good position to drop in and view the Tareq Rajeb Museum in Kuwait.. they may help on Murrah etc. Their weapons collection is very nice.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Salaams Lew ~ The spaghetti end of the hilt is an excellent description. I agree with the glowlight approach with a high powered pen torch it often lights up the edges. In this case there is a lot of oil and grime locked in the material so not sure if it will penetrate...but worth a go.
To confuse the issue in Oman Rhino horn is called Z'raff and there is "apparently" a Giraffe hoof horn used for daggers in neighbouring countries.
Your initial response that the item is a mixed Oman/Yemen job is probably right. It looks like a recently traded in article and procured in the Kuwait market. I point to Salalah/Yemen as its area of use in one of the Jebali tribes that straddle the border but Muscat as its point of manufacture either a Muscat 8 Ringer or Royal Khanjar with a distinctly "foreign blade" (three dot) replacement. Quite a detective story. :shrug:
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Salaams Spiral ~ Ha! Nicely put. The trend here is for the translucent blonded edge ... It threw me seeing the dull hilt but once I had followed your instruction it became obvious it was "Whahid al Garn" The one with the horn.(Rhino)
Your expertise with the wood tagging is indeed a rare talent.. Although there are some odd woods here like Meez, Karot and an almost iron hard heavyweight thing from the Jebel Akhdar called Atom none of which were exported except the latter, apparently, as the favoured woodwork on some K98K Vermacht rifles in the early part of WW2. It is teak white in colour but stains black almost like ebony and carves well. All three are favoured these days as camel stick wood.
Using both of my mark one eyeballs I was looking at the end of hilt photo when a friendly but invisible tap on the shoulder whispered in my ear ... Its Rhino Stupid !! :shrug:

Shukran!

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Salaams kahnjar1 Please do not get me wrong on this ... Im not trying to be clever.. A whole lot of folks ( even here) are unfamiliar with the borders of these three countries which are stil ill defined and for many years have had little or no access. I even refer to peripheral areas of adjoining countries myself... forgetting that Saudia border areas are utterly moonlike in landscape and no fixed habitation exists for hundreds of miles. Criss crossing this region are the infrequent tribes,(like al Murrah) though, this doesn't constitute a fixed ethnographic base for artefacts. Where there is a lot of cross border leakage both ways is Oman/Yemen since the tribes straddle the border. I think this is where this dagger is likely to have been used and later, according to the new owner, it has been traded through a Kuwaiti dealer... perhaps gathered in Salalah.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Ibrahim,

I didnt get this from a Kuwaiti dealer, rather from an American online.

When I mentioned that Kuwaiti dealers buy rhino khanjars from Oman I wasnt specifically speaking about this khanjar but about the other examples that exist in Kuwait mainly of normal Omani shape or the 'royal' hilt type which has horn like silver decoration.

Infact, you can check Artzi's site for a few Saidi type 'royal' hilts with rhino similar to this.

:) ok so its from outside... so no clues as to provenance from that angle..It rather throws the evidence. I think the trail ends thereabouts. Any other clues?.. No clues from the seller? I looked at artzi and 11657 and was reminded of the preference for rhino even on a number of virtually 90% silver covered Royal khanjar hilts.. the top hilt silver button arrangement on that reference is very similar to yours... My guestimate of provenance rests somewhere between Southern Oman/ Yemen in its useage and Muscat in its manufacture... The blade however... no idea...maybe India ?

Regards Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Bonjour Ibrahim!

My "expertise" with wood is minimal, sadley, Its a process of work or recognition & rejection based opn key cards.... & a few get remebered of course & the basic growth structures of wood sometimes remembered.

There a many thousands of commercial species, I would merly recognise a few hundred. {Of course the undestading & use of keys can with enough time recognise any commercial species.If one puts enough hours in.} If the species is uncommercial then its on to those Fedral labs. Kew garden types who have non commercial species ID. cards as well.

But thank you for understanding my stance, I couldnt see why you couldnt see it, For many reasons I was relieved when you did. ;)

You took my stance well I think..

Shukran!

Spiral

Breakthrough !!!

Salaams Lew, A Al Nakkas, Spiral, Atlantia, Khanjar 1 and all interested parties in this discussion. I have been staring at this little conundrum for many days on and off.. something just not right... so it is with some relief that I can now tell everyone what this weird number actually is. At the same time I am able to clear up one thorny issue over the terminology "Habaabi" aluded to by me on several occasions on details in other threads but never able til now to nail it correctly..

Personally I have had the run around after information on this subject thinking (based on rumour and other peoples supposition here in Oman) that Habaabi was a generic term applied to several tracts of Saudia when in fact it only applies to one region..It is the name of an actual place in the South and fits with the origin of species of the daggers at my thread "The Omani Khanjar"... It used to be in the Yemen but was incorporated into Saudia about 90 years ago. The style appears to have migrated as a copied in design after the Royal Omani Khanjar, Muscat from perhaps the mid 19th C.

It is very specific in that its design is quite unlike any other Yemeni (or Saudia variant), however, is parallel in style in almost all aspects to the Omani Royal Khanjar.

The seaport of Jazan was a major trading sealink with Muscat. The new design of Royal Kkanjar would have easily found preference there since Jazan is on the through trade route to and from Zanzibar as well as being itself an important trade port link.

I am delighted to report to Forum that what we have here is The Original form Habaabi Khanjar on a Rhino hilt. It forms a benchmark for the original style of dagger from that region and all over the Jazan.

The Habaabi Khanjar. :shrug:

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Namaste Ibrahim!

PerhapsI recomend the book "The Art of Rhinoceros Horn Carving in China" by Jan Chapman to you Ibrahiim.

Although not perfect it has many excelent photos demonstrating genuine Rhino horn grain, growth styles etc. Also a small section on fake horns.

I am sure you would find it interesting & helpfull, Given your earlier opinions re the both horn in this & the "Recent Jambiya and a new Khanjar " thread by Archer.

Regards
Spiral

Salaams Spiral ~ Interesting reference indeed. I am all for that. Naturally we try to switch to composite or non rare horn but the demand is still high for the rare stuff sadly... and since almost single handedly Yemeni daggers, though, I'm afraid Omani too... have caused a great demise in the Rhino population which faces extinction. After all, composite hilts accept all the pins in exactly the same way as Rhino...or Elephant. Local people, however, think I'm mad to even consider it. It would be interesting to see Mamoth tusk used on Khanjars but it has never been done to my knowledge... There was a half rumour drifting about that Giraffe hoof was also used but I need to see that to analyse etc... It doesn't help that the local Arabic term for Rhino is Z'raff !
Actually Rhino hilt in Oman is usually very simple to spot since the edges are nearly always translucent which is easy to see with a powerful pen torch. I'm rambling on a bit here but I haven't dropped the baton quite...

I'm just trying to manouvre it around to try to persuade you to run a disertation on Rhino horn since you have the book and I don't and the chances of it being stocked out here are totally zero! :D

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Thank you But there people more informed than I to do such work I am sure on this forum.

Re. your ID of this jambiya it seems to match with "cult of the Jambiya" by Schuyler V.R. Camman {1977}

Spiral

Salaams Spiral ~ Well you certainly seem quite well informed to me ! Brilliant addition of this reference(not previously known to me) thank you. Do continue to post ~ I deduce from your style and input that you have the ethno detective in your blood ... Bravo !! Encore !!! :)

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Salaams~ Note to Forum, following on from the above post :

Quote "Biography.
Schuyler Van Rensselaer Cammann was born in New York city in 1912 and attended St. Paul's School (Long Island) and Kent School (Connecticut). He received his B.A. from Yale (1935), M.A from Harvard (1941), and Ph.D. (1949) from John Hopkins, where he studied under Owen Lattimore. Both the M.A. and Ph.D. were in Asian History. From 1935 to 1941 he taught English in the Yale-in-China program, and served as a Lieutenant in the U.S. Navy during World War II stationed in Washington D. C., western China and Mongolia. In 1948 Cammann joined the faculty of the Department of Oriental Studies at the University of Pennsylvania where he remained until his retirement in 1982. From 1948 till 1955 he was Associate Curator of the East Asian Collections for the University Museum. During his tenure at the museum he was a member of excavation teams at Gordion (Turkey) and Kunduz (Afghanistan). Also during that time he was a member of the panel for the popular T.V. program "What in the World" (1951 – 55). Important professional organization positions included Vice-President of the American Oriental Society and editor of its journal; President of the Philadelphia Anthropological Society and Philadelphia Oriental Club; fellow of the American Learned Societies and the American Anthropological Association.

Professor Cammann wrote, lectured, taught, and consulted in several geographic areas (including China, Tibet, Mongolia, Japan) on such topics as textiles, carpets, art, ivory, snuff bottles, magic squares, and symbolism. He authored four books and numerous articles and reviews, and presented considerable number of lectures to various meetings, organizations and conferences. After his retirement he continued to write as well as conduct several tours in Asia.

Schuyler Van Rensselaer Cammann died in an auto accident near his summer home in Sugar Hill, New Hampshire on September 10, 1991." Unquote.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Notes; In 1977 he made a visit and observations of Yemeni Daggers ~ see The Cult of The Jambiyya http://www.penn.museum/documents/pub...-2/Cammann.pdf
(What is not so often known are his treatise upon Islamic and Indian squares.)