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-   -   Old or new ''fake'' yemeni jambiya-khanjar ? (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=25970)

francantolin 4th June 2020 07:59 PM

Old or new ''fake'' yemeni jambiya-khanjar ?
 
6 Attachment(s)
Hello,
I wanted to show you the dagger I just received,
looks like a yemeni khanjar,
total length 35cm

I liked the leather scabbard.
It was sold at a really low price so I bought it because it seemed not too recent and well made.
I knew the hilt was not made of horn but it is not wood and not just plastic-resin

Maybe made of bakelite or mixed stuff ? ( I read about that on the forum )

Do you think it's an old ''copy-imitation'' of a rhino hilted khanjar,

or can it be really recent

I tried to heat a little, it smells not like horn/hair not plastic
but a little like soap-incense.

Any comment ?

Thank you -Kind regards

francantolin 4th June 2020 08:00 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Sorry,
pictures are not in the right order...
some more

kahnjar1 4th June 2020 08:45 PM

Good genuine Yemeni Jambiya IMHO. Not a recent made tourist piece.
Stu

David R 4th June 2020 09:55 PM

The hilt could be "Amberoid" .... https://www.britannica.com/science/amberoid-resin

I think you got a nice one.

Kubur 4th June 2020 11:07 PM

Hi
It's a nice jambiya from Aden.
It depends what you call old, if old is 1950ties, it's old.
I think it is hornoid or bakelite.
;)

David R 5th June 2020 04:13 PM

"I tried to heat a little, it smells not like horn/hair not plastic
but a little like soap-incense."

Which is why I am thinking something resinous, like Amberoid.

francantolin 5th June 2020 04:15 PM

Hello,

Thank you all for your comments !

50's just begins to be old for humans, for a jambiya not sure ;)
hopefully it's not too recent.

Interesting the ''amberoid'' I didn't know it

I wonder why they used to do this kind of hilt materials instead wood or marble-stone handle and why they mixed it with real silver filgree-mounts.

- Was it to sell it high priced as a rare rhino hilted piece to the few
( I think !?! ) present strangers ( for British ? with the Aden Protectorate... )

- Or for local people who liked the similarity with horn hilt but hadn't enough
money to buy one ? ( like skaļ-imitation leather instead of real one )

francantolin 5th June 2020 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David R
"I tried to heat a little, it smells not like horn/hair not plastic
but a little like soap-incense."

Which is why I am thinking something resinous, like Amberoid.


logical !

Kubur 5th June 2020 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David R
"I tried to heat a little, it smells not like horn/hair not plastic
but a little like soap-incense."

Which is why I am thinking something resinous, like Amberoid.

Indeed it is extremely interesting! Especialy in Yemen.
I have some jambiya the blade is connected to the hilt with some frankincense... but its a bit sticky.

Kubur 5th June 2020 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by francantolin

I wonder why they used to do this kind of hilt materials instead wood or marble-stone handle and why they mixed it with real silver filgree-mounts.

- Was it to sell it high priced as a rare rhino hilted piece to the few
( I think !?! ) present strangers ( for British ? with the Aden Protectorate... )

- Or for local people who liked the similarity with horn hilt but hadn't enough
money to buy one ? ( like skaļ-imitation leather instead of real one )

You should buy Gracie's book, the best on this topic.

David R 5th June 2020 10:16 PM

Amberoid is not a cheap material, though nowhere near as expensive as natural Amber. It can also be bought as fairly large blocks, as used to be sold by a supplier used to deal with. The technology is also old, dating back to the late bronze age.

It was a favoured material for pipe stems in the West and in the Muslim world, regarded as self purifying in the Middle East and is used a lot for worry beads in place of genuine amber. No guarantee of course but it would be my guess.

https://gem-a.com/gem-hub/gem-knowle...tructed-pieces

Bob A 5th June 2020 10:37 PM

I'm unable to speculate regarging the hilt materiel, but the silver work is attractive.

The blade has an odd look, to me, making me wonder if it is solid, or a welded-together molded 2-piece construct, which I understand is sometimes done. (It's surprisingly shiny, making me think of some sort of plating).

francantolin 6th June 2020 05:32 PM

6 Attachment(s)
Hello,

Thank you David for your comment,
maybe it's amberoid as you suggest, maybe mixed, some parts have translucence and are brown with no light, other nothing at all ( cf pictures ),

for the blade I put some pictures, really don't see/think it's made of two sheets but it is really thin compared to other jambiyas I have and has a really sharp edge

Kind regards

kronckew 6th June 2020 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob A
I'm unable to speculate regarding the hilt material, but the silver work is attractive.

The blade has an odd look, to me, making me wonder if it is solid, or a welded-together moulded 2-piece construct, which I understand is sometimes done. (It's surprisingly shiny, making me think of some sort of plating).

I notice d that too, they make a lot of fake blades now, cheap thin sheet steel with the central ridge stamped in to a left/right half, edges welded then ground a bit. Blade appears thick but is hollow. If the hand grip is resin, the 'silver' may be plated.

Interested Party 6th June 2020 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kubur
You should buy Gracie's book, the best on this topic.

What title? :)

francantolin 6th June 2020 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronckew
I notice d that too, they make a lot of fake blades now, cheap thin sheet steel with the central ridge stamped in to a left/right half, edges welded then ground a bit. Blade appears thick but is hollow. If the hand grip is resin, the 'silver' may be plated.


Hello,

the blade is thin but it's made of only one piece of metal and there is a central ridge on both side

TVV 6th June 2020 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Interested Party
What title? :)

Stephen Gracie, "Jambiya: Daggers from the Ancient Souks of Yemen"

If you can, get the hardcover copy. A really great book, with a ton of info and great pictures and also very pleasant to read. Elgood's "The Arms and Armour of Arabia" also has a lot of good info in the chapter on daggers.

Kubur 6th June 2020 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TVV
Stephen Gracie, "Jambiya: Daggers from the Ancient Souks of Yemen"

If you can, get the hardcover copy. A really great book, with a ton of info and great pictures and also very pleasant to read. Elgood's "The Arms and Armour of Arabia" also has a lot of good info in the chapter on daggers.

I confirm but Elgood's book is not cheap...
:(

kahnjar1 6th June 2020 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TVV
Stephen Gracie, "Jambiya: Daggers from the Ancient Souks of Yemen"

If you can, get the hardcover copy. A really great book, with a ton of info and great pictures and also very pleasant to read. Elgood's "The Arms and Armour of Arabia" also has a lot of good info in the chapter on daggers.

This book was available from Artzi. He may still have copies. Contact details for Oriental Arms can be found in the Members List above.
I agree with Teodor's comments....if you have an interest in Jambya then this is the book to have.
Stu

David R 7th June 2020 12:36 PM

You might like this link... https://www.penn.museum/sites/expedi...f-the-jambiya/

Mel H 7th June 2020 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronckew
I notice d that too, they make a lot of fake blades now, cheap thin sheet steel with the central ridge stamped in to a left/right half, edges welded then ground a bit. Blade appears thick but is hollow. If the hand grip is resin, the 'silver' may be plated.

I had one more than twenty years since that someone had attempted to sharpen on a wheel, resulting in the partial separation of the two halves.


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