Ethnographic Arms & Armour

Ethnographic Arms & Armour (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/index.php)
-   Ethnographic Miscellania (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=16)
-   -   Strange statue (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=22679)

Royston 10th May 2017 08:35 AM

Strange statue
 
5 Attachment(s)
Does anyone have a clue to the origin of this ?
Dense hardwood.
Approx 17" / 43cm tall.

I cannot find any references to a woman with a mans head on her back. The faces appear European but who knows?

All suggestions welcome.
Thanks
Roy

Bob A 10th May 2017 09:26 PM

Salome with the head of John the Baptist, perhaps?

I was thinking German, Black Forest area, but not for any articulable reason.

Royston 10th May 2017 10:03 PM

I did consider Salome, but almost every image shows her with John's head on a plate.

Rick 11th May 2017 02:34 AM

I can't really see whether the woman is holding the head .
Is she?

Royston 11th May 2017 07:40 AM

Rick

Her arms disappear into the mans hair so it's not really clear.

The only choices seem to be that either she is holding the head, it is growing out of her back in some alien way or that she is wearing it as an ornament like coleridges Ancient Mariner.

Roy

thinreadline 12th May 2017 07:58 AM

1 Attachment(s)
it does look like one of those Black Forest lightwood carvings so is it possible that it depicts a German fairy tale or legend ?
Here is a possibility ...
The Rose-Elf by Hans Christian Anderson (Fairy Tales 1839)
A young woman’s lover is stabbed to death, beheaded, and buried, by her wicked and possessive brother. After committing the murder, the brother is described as ‘entering the beautiful, blooming girl’s bedroom as she lies dreaming of her lover, and bending over her, laughing hideously as only a fiend can laugh as he does so’. This could mean he just stands at the foot of her bed and laughs, but it could also represent something a lot more sinister.As the brother was burying the corpse, a dry leaf settled in his hair. A tiny elf, who witnessed the brutal act, hid under this leaf, which then settled on the girl’s bed as her brother ‘bent over her’. The elf climbs into the girl’s ear, tells her of her lover’s murder, and informs her where the body lies. The girl wakes up, broken-hearted, and goes into the woods to dig up her lover’s head. She shakes the earth out of his hair, kisses his cold, dead lips, and carries the severed head home with her.

mariusgmioc 12th May 2017 10:45 AM

What about Judith holding the head of Holofernes?!
:shrug:

corrado26 12th May 2017 05:15 PM

I am living in the Black Forest and I can affirm you that this is certainly no work of art of our region. By the way, Hans Christian Anderson was not a German but a Danish and between Danmark and the Black Forest in Southwest Germany there are more than 1000km. I think that the sculpture depicts Judith and the head of Holofernes.
corrado26

Richard G 12th May 2017 06:06 PM

If someone told me it was an (African) Makonde carvers attempt at a European subject I wouldn't be too surprised. Colin Henshaw might know.
Regards
Richard.

thinreadline 12th May 2017 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corrado26
I am living in the Black Forest and I can affirm you that this is certainly no work of art of our region. By the way, Hans Christian Anderson was not a German but a Danish and between Danmark and the Black Forest in Southwest Germany there are more than 1000km. I think that the sculpture depicts Judith and the head of Holofernes.
corrado26

No offence but I am perfectly aware of Hans Christian Andersons nationality ! I
do however think the style has much in common with Black Forest style wood carving. You may well be right about it being Judith and Holofernes though most often in art this is depicted as Judith with a sword and with the head of Holofernes being carried not by her but by her servant & quite openly rather than concealed.

Royston 15th May 2017 06:28 AM

Thanks everyone. I didn't think it was goint to be very obvious. Richard, I like your idea. Several people had suggested Black Forest, but I did not think that the wood was dark enough or the carving fine enough.
Thinredline, the Rose Elf looks the best bet to me.
Cheers
Roy

colin henshaw 15th May 2017 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard G
If someone told me it was an (African) Makonde carvers attempt at a European subject I wouldn't be too surprised. Colin Henshaw might know.
Regards
Richard.

I can't really help much unfortunately. It does look a bit like Makonde work and they sometimes carved sculpture with Christian imagery...

fernando 15th May 2017 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard G
If someone told me it was an (African) Makonde carvers attempt at a European subject I wouldn't be too surprised. Colin Henshaw might know.
Regards
Richard.

While in the Army i have been neighbor to Macondes, watch them working and also saw the results. It is true they carved European images by request; i had one made of our lady of Fatima for myself. I don't think this is their work, neither the type of image nor the carving style.
But i just don't think; no expertise here.

thinreadline 15th May 2017 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Royston
Thanks everyone. I didn't think it was goint to be very obvious. Richard, I like your idea. Several people had suggested Black Forest, but I did not think that the wood was dark enough or the carving fine enough.
Thinredline, the Rose Elf looks the best bet to me.
Cheers
Roy

Thank you , though I do stress that this is only a suggestion. This story though popularised by Hans Christian ANDERSON ,exists in variant forms throughout central and northern Europe .

colin henshaw 16th May 2017 11:50 AM

3 Attachment(s)
In a way it almost reminds me of sculptures by Paul Gauguin. So maybe a hobbyist wanting to emulate his style ??

kronckew 16th May 2017 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thinreadline
it does look like one of those Black Forest lightwood carvings so is it possible that it depicts a German fairy tale or legend ?
Here is a possibility ...
The Rose-Elf by Hans Christian Anderson (Fairy Tales 1839)...

read it HERE: http://hca.gilead.org.il/elf_rose.html

short version of the ending:
the evil brother gets it in the end, stabbed by the elves of the roses poisoned spears.

HCA was a rather gruesome story teller, hard to think of him as writing for children.

Richard G 17th May 2017 12:29 PM

1 Attachment(s)
I was thinking along the lines of the front row here.
Regards
Richard

fernando 17th May 2017 02:42 PM

Are those Maconde ? :confused: .

Richard G 17th May 2017 09:05 PM

Probably not, but being sold in Mozambique.
I think I was being a little too specific when I said Makonde. the 'chip' carving and wood look to me as if they could be East African. The concept of the protuding head made me think of a makonde shetani figure.This is just a suggestion.
Colin might be closer to the mark whith his suggestion of it being the work of a hobbiest.
Best wishes
Richard

Royston 18th May 2017 07:49 AM

Thanks again everyone. I guess it will stay as a mystery for now.
I just like it because it is different and its "weirdness" appeals to me.
Regards
Roy


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 04:16 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.