Ethnographic Arms & Armour

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-   -   5 Keris hilts (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=28107)

apolaki 5th August 2022 02:16 AM

4 Keris hilts
 
6 Attachment(s)
Hi, I hope everyone is doing well! Can anyone tell me about these Keris hilts? I think they are deder from Java but more carving then I have usually seen on similar ones.

Jean 5th August 2022 09:55 AM

Recently made hilts in fantasy Central Javanese style....:)

Marcokeris 5th August 2022 12:20 PM

Yes! Deder from central Java...one good for patrem

Jean 5th August 2022 01:21 PM

Hello Marco,
Are you Raspoutine actually?:D
I thought he was killed during last century?:confused:
Regards

A. G. Maisey 5th August 2022 01:44 PM

Most are recent Jean, certainly, and the execution is not particularly good, but these are legitimate forms.

The smallish one looks as if it has a bit of age.

apolaki 5th August 2022 03:55 PM

Thank you all!

Is there specific names or representations of each?

To me the 2nd hilt looks like a naga?

What is the form/design called for the last 2 that are geometric?

Marcokeris 5th August 2022 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jean (Post 273988)
Hello Marco,
Are you Raspoutine actually?:D
I thought he was killed during last century?:confused:
Regards

:D:D:D

Marcokeris 5th August 2022 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by apolaki (Post 273996)
Thank you all!

Is there specific names or representations of each?

To me the 2nd hilt looks like a naga?

What is the form/design called for the last 2 that are geometric?

yes !
the first it's a "putri kinurung"
the second a "naga"
3 an 4: variation of "naradakanda"

David 6th August 2022 03:18 PM

It would be helpful to see the others besides the naga form from a side angle as well. ;)

apolaki 6th August 2022 05:29 PM

4 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by David (Post 274024)
It would be helpful to see the others besides the naga form from a side angle as well. ;)

Hi David, here are the side angles. Also, I am interested to know about the difference between "Fantasy" creations and legitimate forms.

I obtained these because I liked the variety it shows in Javanese deder. If it were your collection, would these be something to add or pass on?

Also, are there anything unique about them in general?

Thanks again for all your insight

Marcokeris 6th August 2022 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by apolaki (Post 274029)
Hi David, here are the side angles. Also, I am interested to know about the difference between "Fantasy" creations and legitimate forms.

I obtained these because I liked the variety it shows in Javanese deder. If it were your collection, would these be something to add or pass on?

Also, are there anything unique about them in general?

Thanks again for all your insight

If was my collection, I would add the last two....but nothing unique. In fact i don't think these 4 deders are a fantasy creation.

Jean 6th August 2022 06:45 PM

By "fantasy" I only meant "not standard" and I admit that they are not bad pieces although I would not collect them just because I am a classical collector. The smallest piece has some age indeed :)

Marcokeris 7th August 2022 03:04 PM

2 Attachment(s)
two fantasies :)

David 7th August 2022 08:18 PM

Still not seeing the "fantasy". ;)

A. G. Maisey 7th August 2022 08:52 PM

Really Marco?

Or perhaps you mean in the archaic sense:- "with sense" (Oxford)

Marcokeris 7th August 2022 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey (Post 274051)
Really Marco?

Or perhaps you mean in the archaic sense:- "with sense" (Oxford)

yes, fantasies hilt are different.. but I think that all the hilts posted till now in this Apolaki post-page are not fantasies.

David 8th August 2022 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcokeris (Post 274059)
yes, fantasies hilt are different.. but I think that all the hilts posted till now in this Apolaki post-page are not fantasies.

But why do you identify the hilts you posted as "two fantasies" then?

Marcokeris 8th August 2022 06:47 PM

I wrote thinking about what Jean had written. I thought you understood. Instead I was wrong O:)

rasdan 9th August 2022 12:39 AM

Hello Apolaki and everyone,

As far as I am concerned, the two rightmost handles are known as deder lempuyangan from Jogja. Lempuyang is a type of ginger and the hilt supposedly resemble the flower of the plant.

The one with the snake is known as deder sirah sawer. Sirah means head and sawer means snake. So sirah sawer means snake head.

Different people may call the hilts by different names.

David 9th August 2022 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcokeris (Post 274085)
I wrote thinking about what Jean had written. I thought you understood. Instead I was wrong O:)

Thanks Marco. Perhaps a wink would have help me understand you were joking. ;)
Is that first hilt you posted whale bone?

Marcokeris 9th August 2022 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David (Post 274103)
Thanks Marco. Perhaps a wink would have help me understand you were joking. ;)
Is that first hilt you posted whale bone?

Yes David it's bone. But I honestly don't know what kind of bone :confused:

David 9th August 2022 03:55 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcokeris (Post 274104)
Yes David it's bone. But I honestly don't know what kind of bone :confused:

It's a beautiful hilt! The dark markings are what make me think it might be whale bone. See this Maori whale bone wahaika for comparison.

Marcokeris 9th August 2022 06:44 PM

Nice piece @@ ...you are right David.. they seem mare made by the same material

apolaki 9th August 2022 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcokeris (Post 274040)
two fantasies :)


Wow thanks for sharing the photos Marco! I wonder if I were to polish my versions would they eventually become halus like yours? :) joking of course

Rick 10th August 2022 12:20 AM

Yep
 
I agree, it's most likely Whale bone.
We find old Pilot whale (Blackfish) bones in the salt marsh we live on the edge of. These bones have lots of 'pores' visible.
Pilot whales strand on the barrier beach during the Fall and used to wash over into the marsh after storms; now the town comes out with a bulldozer and buries them.
Kino has a kampilan with a whale bone handle and guard.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...+bone+kampilan


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