Well, here is what looks like a small crocodile jaw bone dagger. It is approximately 10 inches in length. The photos make it looks extremely bleached out but I think that it is most likely because of the flash. What do the experts think, is this croc or not?

Robert

I HAVE SEEN SOME THAT LOOK LIKE THIS MADE RECENTLY IN THE USA FROM ALIGATOR JAWS. USUALLY YOU CAN SEE WHERE POWER TOOLS, SAWS AND GRINDERS HAVE BEEN USED ON THESE. I DON'T THINK IT WAS MADE IN NEW GUINEA OR FROM CROC JAW BUT COULD BE WRONG. I DON'T KNOW IF THE NATIVE AMERICAN TRIBES MADE SUCH DAGGERS IN THE OLD DAYS BUT THE GATORS WERE VERY NUMEROUS THEN SO IT IS POSSIBLE.
THE GATOR JAWS AND SKULLS ARE USUALLY CLEANED WITH STRONG BLEACH SO IF IT LOOKS BLEACHED WHITE ( AS IT APEARS IN THE PICTURES) THAT IS ANOTHER THING TO LOOK FOR. THE NEW GATOR JAW KNIVES ARE NEAT BUT NOT REALLY ETHINOGRAPHIC BUT IT IS GOOD TO SEE ONE IN THIS POST FOR COMPARASON.

Thank you very much for your opinion and information. I will look for the telltale marks left by power tools when it arrives. If it does not show any of these signs if you would like I could send it to you for a first hand look at it and final evaluation. Thanks again.

Robert

PICTURES
#1,#2 & #3. BONE DAGGER WITH ARM BAND KWOMA TRIBE, SEPIK PAPUA NEW GUINEA. 21 CM. LONG DAGGER
#4. AZMAT BARBED DAGGER 12 INCHES LONG

#1. #2, #3. ABELAM DAGGERS
#4. CASSOWARY BONE DAGGER WITH CASSOWARY HEAD POMMEL.
#5, #6. #7. BONE DAGGER, 13.5 IN.L.
#8. BONE DAGGER

An Asmat dagger from human bone!

HERE ARE A FEW MORE EXAMPLES TO ADD TO THE REFERENCE. :)
#1. THRU #5, 16.75 IN., ABELAM TRIBE,WORSA REGION, CASSOWARY BONE DAGGER,CARVED BIRD POMMEL
#6. 6 ABELAM DAGGER FROM BOOK
#7. THRU # 10, 38 CM. ABELAM DAGGER CARVED BIRD POMMEL
#11. SENTANAI, BONE DAGGER
#. 12 PICTURE OF TWO DAGGERS IN THE MUSEUM IN BUDAPEST.

TWO MORE PICTURES OF #11 SENTANAI DAGGER IN ABOVE POST.

HERE IS SOMETHING THAT SOLD RECENTLY ON EBAY. IT HAS A WOOD BLADE AND A VERTEBRAE OF SOME SORT ATTACHED TO THE TOP WITH FIBER. I SUSPECT IT IS RECENT MADE AND MAY OR MAY NOT BE A TRUE ETHNOGRAPHIC DAGGER. IT CERTAINLY DOESN'T QUALIFY AS A BONE DAGGER IN MY BOOK BUT GOOD FOR REFRENCE.
13.5 INCH LONG WOOD BLADE BONE VERTEBRAE POMMEL. SAID TO BE FROM THE CASSOWARY BUT WHO KNOWS?

A FEW MORE NEW GUINEA BONE ITEMS.
#1. & #2. EAST SEPIK, ARAPESH AREA TOOL USED AT YAM FEASTS, 8 IN. LONG
. #3. & #4. ASMAT BEFORE 1950, 14.5 IN. LONG
#5 THRU #7 ABELAM, PNG BEFORE 1950, 10.5 IN. LONG

A FEW MORE EXAMPLES
#1. & #2. SHORT DAGGER 17 CM. LONG, KUBALIA AREA NEW GUINEA
#3. #4, & #5. WESTERN SEPIK, PRE-CONTACT 28 CM. LONG. POSSIBLY MADE FROM HUMAN BONE I WOULD GUESS UPPER ARM BONE (HUMERUS)
#6. TWO EXAMPLES FROM THE BUDAPEST MUSEUM CATALOG.

#1. & #2. CROCODILE JAW DAGGER 18.5 INCHES LONG
#3. ABELAM, 32.5 CM. LONG
#4, #5, & #6. ABELAM 39 CM. LONG
#7. 40 CM. LONG BOKIN BONE DAGGER

#1. 19 CM. ABELAM BONE DAGGER
#2. 25 CM. ABELAM BONE DAGGER
#3. 11 IN., 28CM. l. AZMAT BONE DAGGER
#4. 47 CM./ 18.5 INCHES AZMAT CROCODILE JAW DAGGER
#5. 38 CM. AZMAT DAGGER
#6. 40 CM. AZMAT DAGGER
#7. WOSERA BONE DAGGER, 30 CM.
#8 & #9. AITAPE BONE DAGGER, 31 CM.
#10, #11, & #12. 35 CM. BONE DAGGER MIDDLE SEPIK.

A FEW MORE EXAMPLES RECENT AND VINTAGE.
#1. AZMAT 12.5 INCHES LONG TRADITIONAL GRIP
#2., #3 & #4. RECENT ITEM WITH CASSOWARY BONE, CLAWS AND FEATHERS.
#5 & #6. RECENT CASSOWARY BONE DAGGER WITH SHEITH.
#7. THREE IATMUAL PAY BACK DAGGERS.
#8. 36 CM. LONG PNG
#9, #10 & #11. 44CM. OR 17.5 INCH CROCODILE DAGGER AZMAT PAPUA APPEARS TO BE MORE RECENT THAN SOME.

TWO MORE VARIATIONS OF NEW GUINEA BONE DAGGERS ONE 15.5 IN AND ONE 8 INCHES LONG. THE LONGER ONE COULD BE A LIME STICK. :confused:

#1. AZMAT, NORTH WEST COAST NEW GUINEA
#2. TWO NICE EXAMPLES OF THE DAGGERS WITH FACES

#1. ABELAM 7 IN. LONG
#2. ABELAM 7.5 IN. LONG
#3. THRU #6. ABELAM 16 INCHES LONG.
#7 THRU # 9. ABELAM 37 CM. LONG
#10 THRU #12. ITAMUL, 12 INCH, ORCHID FIBER HANDLE AND SHEATH.

THREE NEW GUINEA BONE DAGGERS CASSOWARY BONE GOOD AGE AND PATINA
17 CM, 20 CM AND 24 CM.

#1. 26 CM. LONG THIN DAGGER OR LIME STICK, SEPIK AREA
#2. & #3. & #4. 32 CM. LONG WOOD SEPIK DAGGER
#5. & #6. CROCODILE JAW DAGGER 19 CM. NEW GUINEA

A FEW MORE EXAMPLES.
#1. & #2. 27 INCH AZMAT CASSOWARY BONE DAGGER
#3. & #4. 33 CM. CASSOWARY BONE DAGGER

I did not realize the full range of artwork on these daggers! :eek:

I picked up a couple that belong in this thread, One cassowary and one from a person. I know little about these cultures so if anyone has any opinions about the engraving styles and their origin please share. As I understand it human bone daggers were taken from the skeleton of an honored ancestor rather than the victims of cannibalism. Such daggers are quite rare, a survey off American museums found 21 out of 499 daggers to be from human bones. The human one has a deep covering of soot with the orange patina of the bone peeking through. I hope this does not offend anyone, we all draw the line somewhere and we all end up as bones

You got me thinking about my bone dagger, as to whether it is a human femur or not. I found this good anatomy tutorial. If you follow it carefully even though my dagger has been carved there is still enough anatomical detail left to assume it is probably the femur of the right leg. The details are in the distal femur. The medial & lateral condyles, medial adductor tubercle and more.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oi0cOvuhsa8

It fits my leg.

May I ask from where you know that one is from human bone?

Regards,
Detlef

I am only sumising from the online femur anatomy lessons.

Cool dagger, Tim! I found this article exploring the difference in daggers from human vs. cssowary material: https://www.livescience.com/62399-hu...e-daggers.html


Cheers, Thor

It's not easy to differentiate between cassowary and human bone, one picture in the link Thor posted shows it good.

Assuming that is the be all knowledge of PNG bone daggers, which I very much doubt. :shrug:

I am as well Tim, but the top of the bones show clearly the anatomy difference. Another point is that human bones are more straight.
Another point is the feel and colour, like said, it's not easy.

Regards,
Detlef