Ethnographic Arms & Armour

Ethnographic Arms & Armour (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/index.php)
-   Keris Warung Kopi (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=11)
-   -   Figural ! (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=16214)

Gavin Nugent 9th September 2023 06:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by werecow (Post 279310)
I love that keris grip btw. As a kid I often went to the ethnography museum with my parents here in Leiden, and the colorful Indonesian (and particularly Balinese) demon masks and Rangda in particular always creeped me out in a good way. Those creepy lidless eyes, those tusks, and that tongue! I love good horror imagery and monsters of any sort, but I have to admit that western demons don't really compare to the Balinese version.

To quote a dear departed friend where Bali iconography is concerned, "Even the Goodies have teeth"

Rick 9th September 2023 06:39 AM

That's a very nice grouping; excellent workmanship!
What or who is the figure on the right side of the image?
Great additions to the thread! Thanks :)

Gavin Nugent 9th September 2023 06:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick (Post 284576)
That's a very nice grouping; excellent workmanship!
What or who is the figure on the right side of the image?
Great additions to the thread! Thanks :)

Rick, this thread may be of some insight.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=27190

JustYS 9th September 2023 08:59 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick (Post 284576)
That's a very nice grouping; excellent workmanship!
What or who is the figure on the right side of the image?
Great additions to the thread! Thanks :)

Thank you Rick.

It’s a horse.

Sajen 9th September 2023 03:22 PM

5 Attachment(s)
A new addition to the collection, a Lombok handle.

Interested Party 9th September 2023 06:08 PM

Interesting and well done pieces. JustYS and Sajen do you know the approximate age of your examples?

For my edification, Sajen yours is Hanapu? JustYS from left yours are 1. Unknown 2 Vishnu and Guarda 3. Rakshasa 4. Ganesh 5. Unknown I can't see what he is holding for a clue 6. Rangda and a snack. 7. Horse with no visible wings.

David 9th September 2023 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustYS (Post 284574)
Pick up couple of Balinese hilts for my small but growing collection.
It’s almost as addictive as Keris…..

Nice contemporary carvings Just. Yes, there are some folks who only collect hilts. I can see why it can be addictive.

Sajen 9th September 2023 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Interested Party (Post 284598)
Interesting and well done pieces. JustYS and Sajen do you know the approximate age of your examples?

For my edification, Sajen yours is Hanapu? JustYS from left yours are 1. Unknown 2 Vishnu and Guarda 3. Rakshasa 4. Ganesh 5. Unknown I can't see what he is holding for a clue 6. Rangda and a snack. 7. Horse with no visible wings.

Hello IP,

I can only guess the age of my hilt, it's used and show age, made from buffalo horn. 50 to 100 years? It's a monkey but I don't think that it should represent Hanuman.

Regards,
Detlef

JustYS 10th September 2023 05:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Interested Party (Post 284598)
Interesting and well done pieces. JustYS and Sajen do you know the approximate age of your examples?

For my edification, Sajen yours is Hanapu? JustYS from left yours are 1. Unknown 2 Vishnu and Guarda 3. Rakshasa 4. Ganesh 5. Unknown I can't see what he is holding for a clue 6. Rangda and a snack. 7. Horse with no visible wings.

Hi IP,

As David said, mines are mostly contemporary (20th/21st century hilts).

From left to right:
1. Wayang character
2. Vishnu riding Garuda
3. Rakshasa/Demon
4. Ganesha
5. The carver said Prabu (King), could be Rama but not sure
6. Rangda
7. Horse

A. G. Maisey 10th September 2023 08:57 AM

I have just finished reading a very good book, it is a translation from French of the ethnographic accounts of Pierre Dubois, Helen Creese, an Australian academic is the author, the title is "Bali in the Early Nineteenth Century".

Much of the content was familiar to me from other reading that I have done, but all the same there was a lot, a real lot, of things I did not know.

The reason why I have mentioned it here is that I now understand why it is that identification of the characters portrayed in Balinese totogan hilts is somewhere between difficult & impossible in many cases. Often even the carvers are not aware of the character they are carving.

A bit peculiar?

Well, in the book I just mentioned I discovered that way back in the early 19th century in Bali, the Brahmins absolutely controlled the depiction of totogan characters, they would provide a carver with a description, a sketch, or a rough example, sometimes an old example, and the carver would carve it to the Brahmin's instructions. They did not know what they were carving, they only knew what the Brahmin client wanted.

Another factor to consider is this:- even if the name of the totogan character has been correctly given, we still do not know exactly who the hilt is supposed to represent, it is very likely to be the grand father or father of somebody.

So it is perhaps best not to get too caught up in IDing Bali hilt characters, in the past, and through to today, it is a guessing game.

milandro 24th February 2024 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milandro (Post 279938)
I have just added this Hulu to my collection.( the picture on the left)

It is said to depict the goddess Devi Sarawati which represents knowledge, music, art, speech, wisdom, and learning. She is also part of the Tridevi with goddesses Lakshmi and Parvati.

I believe this was carved in the '70.

The material should be albino water buffalo horn ( or white Kerbau )

Interestingly at the same auction where I acquired my Hulu there was also ANOTHER (Right in the picture) almost identical hilt which was mounted on a similar kris where this will be mounted .



I have just learned that the hilt is a representation of Putri Mandalika a Sasak princess whose figure overlaps and someone is identified with the one of Parvati . The goddess is worshipped by the Sasak population of Lombok but also on Bali.


I got this from a new friend , Duncan, who is a very knowledgeable hilt connoisseur , Very thankful to him.


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