Ethnographic Arms & Armour

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-   -   A little Sahel/Maghreb panoply... (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=17723)

Iain 14th January 2014 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue lander
I did indeed! Interestingly enough, the hilt appears to be made from some sort of yellowish plastic. It's starting to delaminate and flake off. It's actually translucent, you can see the tang inside. The front half of the hilt looks like wood.

The hilt and sheath are both disintegrating, but the blade itself is a very nice piece of steel. It has two fullers (one large and very deep, the other thin and shallow) and a fairly sharp false edge. The main edge show signs of repeated resharpening.

I figured it would be horn... Sure it's plastic?

blue lander 14th January 2014 09:33 PM

3 Attachment(s)
It very well could be. Does horn turn translucent with age? Whatever it is, it's flaking off the outside and appears to be delaminating on the inside. You can see what appear to be air pockets inside which led me to believe it was some sort of old plastic.

I've attached a close up illuminated by a flashlight where you can clearly see the tang inside. I've also included a picture of where the wood half (left) of the hilt joins with the "horn" or whatever side (right). There's 3 metal rings in the middle with some sort of blackened material in between. Lastly, a picture of where there may have once been a bolster. Or maybe this part originally slid into the scabbard. The current scabbard covers the blade only.

Iain 17th January 2014 11:53 AM

Looks like horn to me. But I'm no expert on the stuff.

blue lander 17th January 2014 03:10 PM

I'm sure you're right then. The only other horn handles I have are water buffalo horn, so the thought didn't occur to me. I wonder what kind of horn it is.

VANDOO 17th January 2014 04:02 PM

I WOULD SAY HORN AS I HAVE SEEN THIS TYPE OF FLAKEING OFF BEFORE. IF A PIECE FLAKES OFF BURN IT AND CHECK THE SMELL THAT WILL TELL YOU FOR SURE. THE OLD HOT PIN TEST WOULD WORK AS WELL.

blue lander 19th January 2014 02:34 AM

I'll keep an eye out for any flakes about to come off. Should I take any steps to stabilize the handle with something like hooflex?

As for the blade, it must have come off a fairly small sabre. Any way to determine the age? I'm assuming 19th century.

VANDOO 19th January 2014 04:46 AM

SOME SORT OF OIL WOULD HELP KEEP THE HORN FROM DRYING OUT BUT WILL PROBABLY DARKEN THE HORN SOME SO PERHAPS DO A LITTLE SPOT FIRST TO SEE IF YOU LIKE IT. I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE HOOF STUFF IS BUT IF ITS FOR TREATING HORSE HOOFS IT WOULD PROBALY BE GOOD FOR HORN. THE HORN IS LIKELY FROM SOME SORT OF GOAT OR SHEEP THERE ARE SEVERAL TYPES IN THE REGION. PERHAPS CATTLE HORN IF THEY ARE IN THE AREA BUT I WOULD GO WITH GOAT OR SHEEP AS FIRST CHOICE.

blue lander 19th January 2014 05:15 AM

Hooflex seems to be mostly tea tree oil, which I know from personal experience to be very potent and reactive stuff. Maybe neatsfoot oil would be a safer choice, as it comes from cow hooves and whatnot. I'll test on a small corner before I proceed. I really don't want to contribute to the deterioration of this piece. You always have to think of the next owner.

spiral 21st January 2014 10:00 PM

Ram & goat horn when heated & pressed to make wider flatter pieces often later delaminates in this manner.

Baby oil is good, Lanolin matches the original oils removed in the dehydration much more closely though..

Both sold by your local chemist... {Lanolin is best for soothing chewed & chapped nipples on first time mothers apparently.}

Baby oil for chapped & dry skin in general.

Spiral

blue lander 21st January 2014 10:40 PM

Thank you, I'll go the lanolin route. I already have some in the shed I think.

Martin Lubojacky 22nd January 2014 07:44 AM

Lanolin has been used by museums sometimes,to treat old leather artefacts, But it should be used very carefully ("less means more" in this case, e.g it could darken the stuff). They desolve it with petrol due to penetration to inner parts of the skin (but the percentage of lanolin in this solution should be very low).
I think it is not possible to remove or improve such scurfiness, just to preserve it the material. I use natural beeswax, but again very slightly (small quantity). I also (but I do not know, if it is good, or wrong) use hair drier (carefully, from bigger distance to heat only the wax - e.g. old wooden handle could crack) to dissolve the wax on the surface and then I polishe it with soft cloth

spiral 22nd January 2014 08:43 AM

Happy to help Blue Lander.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Lubojacky
Lanolin has been used by museums sometimes,to treat old leather artefacts, But it should be used very carefully ("less means more" in this case, e.g it could darken the stuff). They desolve it with petrol due to penetration to inner parts of the skin (but the percentage of lanolin in this solution should be very low).
I think it is not possible to remove or improve such scurfiness, just to preserve it the material. I use natural beeswax, but again very slightly (small quantity). I also (but I do not know, if it is good, or wrong) use hair drier (carefully, from bigger distance to heat only the wax - e.g. old wooden handle could crack) to dissolve the wax on the surface and then I polishe it with soft cloth


Personaly I wouldn't put petrol leather or horn. Its a carcgenic, fire hazard & strong solvent, not to mention & stinks as well. :shrug:

Lanolin wont darken translucent horn very much, if at all. it will just help stop future degradation. {It would darken leather or some timbers.}

Spiral


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