Ethnographic Arms & Armour

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-   -   Mystery Dagger??? (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=21610)

David 3rd July 2016 05:47 PM

Mystery Dagger???
 
3 Attachment(s)
A friend of mine recently asked be about this dagger, which he thought was from the South Pacific. It looks more African to me, but not quite and i just don't know. The blade is ferric as it attracts a magnet. Any ideas out there?

Rick 3rd July 2016 06:05 PM

It looks like a recycled spearhead and the spear part doesn't say 'Africa' when I look at it.
I'll bet that there are two cultures represented here, possibly even American folk art for the hilt.

Better pictures....etc. ;)

David 3rd July 2016 06:33 PM

Well, it's not mine Rick, so these are the best photos i have. I do think that a mixed cultural thing is possible. The hilt does seem to have a good patina so this does appear to have a bit of age to it. The wrap looks more recent, bit the rest looks pre-WWII to me. :shrug:

David 4th July 2016 04:24 PM

Any other ideas or comments on origin from anyone i could take back to my friend? :)

mariusgmioc 4th July 2016 05:04 PM

Hello David,

As I am no expert, I refrained myself from making any comments, but the moment I saw this "dagger" I thought that it looks like a spear tip with a handle attached.

fernando 4th July 2016 05:54 PM

Highly plausible :o .

colin henshaw 4th July 2016 06:41 PM

Probably a red herring, but the carved head is a bit like Inuit work and the twine binding is the sort of thing a sailor might do. Maybe a hunter/trapper's weapon, or a whaler's ??

kahnjar1 4th July 2016 08:29 PM

I have absolutely no idea about this , but from the pics it LOOKS as if the guy is wearing a peaked cap, but without a side view it is hard to tell.......
Stu

ariel 5th July 2016 04:56 AM

I have the same impression. Weren't there similar handles from Luzon?

DaveA 5th July 2016 08:51 PM

Bulul figure?
 
The figure on the hilt resembles carvings of "Bulul", the rice God of the Ifugao tribe on Luzon. These sometimes ornament Ifugao daggers. I have not seen this particular hilt style used by Ifugao, with the wrapping. :shrug:

Maybe this is a lead for you. Good luck, and please post any new information you find!

Dave A

David 5th July 2016 11:19 PM

So i hear a few votes for Luzon, at least on the hilt. Can anyone point to a Luzon spear head of similar form? I'm just trying to pin this down to a particular region for my friend.
The wrapping could have been added at anytime and certainly seems like the youngest addition to the ensemble.

Ian 8th July 2016 06:34 AM

While the Bulul (northern Luzon) suggestion is an interesting one, the head of the figure is less well defined than the vast majority of examples i have seen, especially in regard to the ears (which appear absent on the figure of the dagger in question). Bulul is often portrayed with very prominent ears (but not always).

Neither the grip nor the blade are obviously Ifugao work, so I'm skeptical of this origin. That said, I don't have a better suggestion.

Ian.

Sajen 8th July 2016 07:21 PM

Hello David,

when I first have seen this unusual dagger was my impression similar to DaveA ones but again similar considerations like Ian seems to have I don't post my impression. Another resemblance I see also with Ano Deo figures from Timor, but again, something bothers me. I am unsure but could be indeed coming from SEA.

Regards,
Detlef

Sajen 9th July 2016 01:50 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Here a picture from The Met but this are from Flores instead of Timor.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi 11th July 2016 06:42 AM

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Or....going back to Bulul carvings...I seem to see a very large ear on #1 ...but need a side shot please... It would seem natural that such huge ears would wear smooth over time...(Oh Grandma what big ears you've got.) :)

Ian 12th July 2016 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kahnjar1
I have absolutely no idea about this , but from the pics it LOOKS as if the guy is wearing a peaked cap, but without a side view it is hard to tell.......
Stu

Stu:

That is a very astute observation and I think you are correct. This rang a bell for me. I now think that the hilt is indeed northern Luzon in origin -- not Ifugao, but rather Ilocano. There is a style of Ilocano knife featuring a Filipino with a peaked cap, presumably military. Such pommels can be found in brass, horn, or wood--the horn ones often have small white inserts for the eyes. There should be pictures on this site. I have several examples but they are all packed as a result of a recent move across country.

Some Ilocano knives are double edged daggers, but I agree that this one looks as though it could have started life as a spear. The wrapped hilt does look recent to me also.

Jose, do you have a picture of one of these Ilocano hilts that you could post?

Ian.

P.S. In a previous post, these caps were thought to be nautical in origin. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=418

Ibrahiim al Balooshi 13th July 2016 06:26 AM

Please Note~ ... the kinnallogong or hat dance (Ilocano)

colin henshaw 13th July 2016 06:53 AM

2 Attachment(s)
How about these two carved Inuit figures (in ivory) ? Note the similarity to the style of the heads...

Ibrahiim al Balooshi 13th July 2016 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by colin henshaw
How about these two carved Inuit figures (in ivory) ? Note the similarity to the style of the heads...


Nice one Colin !


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