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-   -   Yataghan/ Interesting Scabbard (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=21915)

rand 21st September 2016 09:47 PM

Yataghan/ Interesting Scabbard
 
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This yataghans scabbard seems to be a nickel alloy with gold wash with very good repousse.[IMG]http://[/IMG]

rand 21st September 2016 09:51 PM

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rand 21st September 2016 09:59 PM

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rand 21st September 2016 10:16 PM

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Scabbard near throat has writing- maybe allah?

rand 21st September 2016 10:17 PM

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Writing scabbard

rand 22nd September 2016 02:32 AM

Scabbard
 
What I find interesting is that the metal for this scabbard seems like a nickel/silver alloy and not coin silver that you usually find with this quality of repousse. Then a thick gold wash or other gold application over it. You can see many wear points of the gold on high locations.

Kubur 22nd September 2016 06:21 AM

What is Tombak?

Owing to economic constraints, fewer objects were made of gold and silver in the 18th century and this led to an increase in the manufacture of tombak wares. Brass and copper wares gilded in this way are called "tombak".

The earliest examples of Ottoman metalworking are military equipment. Mamluk influence is apparent in 15th-century forms and styles of decoration. The style called "Classical Ottoman" takes shape during the early 16th century. Of special importance during the 16th and 17th centuries are harmoniously-proportioned candlesticks that have austerely-styled forms and are lacking in embellishment but contemporary with them are interesting examples of works whose surfaces are entirely covered with rumi-palmette compositions, braided friezes, delicate saz leaves, and floral motifs.

Not infrequently one comes across copper pieces that have been stamped with seals or are inscribed. Military equipment such as helmets, chamfrons, and shields manufactured at the Topkapi Sarayi armory were stamped with a seal resembling the brand of the Kayl clan, of which the Ottomans were originally a member. Pots and pans used in the great kitchens of the Ottoman palace frequently contain inscriptions indicating who they belong to. Objects bequeathed to mosques and tombs also bear mostly tughra-like dedicatory inscriptions. Some gilded wares are stamped with a seal indicating that they are only tombak so as to avoid any possibility of deception.

from ebuy
Best, Kubur

Ibrahiim al Balooshi 22nd September 2016 06:28 AM

Your Yat blade has a date and it says Mohammed Maashaalah and a date which looks like 1391 or 1291.... :shrug: though I cant see it clearly and as you rightly note Allah on the other picture. Today is 1437... :)

Battara 22nd September 2016 06:48 PM

Unless you have tested the material, to me the patina is looking more like low grade silver with a gold wash, which would actually make more sense and more traditional.

The "ears" and style make me think the piece is Balkan in manufacture.

A very nice piece.

Jerseyman 22nd September 2016 10:58 PM

Is it just my computer - or are there no photos of the entire blade and scabbard? Would it be possible to post some so we can see the whole thing?

Thanks.

rand 23rd September 2016 02:41 AM

Scabbard & Stuff
 
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Appreciate the feedback about this piece. The date is hard to read in the photo, it is 1241. The scabbard is definitely not a coin grade silver that you would expect to see, my best guess is a nickel alloy. Which is very unusual and surprising. Will take an overall photo tomorrow and post, but you cab see just about all parts of this sword now. The blade has a core twist, that too is hard to see in the photo's. The shirmani grip scales are in excellent condition, the silver inlay of the blade is an over lapping triangular punch most common on ottoman empire pieces.

Have just not come across a scabbard with this quality that wasn't silver before. The gold wash is very thick, more the sheen of what you would see with gold over copper. But its definitely not upper or silver comprising the scabbard.

Battara 23rd September 2016 05:20 AM

Jerseyman has a good point - we need pictures of the whole piece please.....

rand 23rd September 2016 12:59 PM

Entire Sword Photo & Writing
 
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Entire sword and better photo of picture.

rand 23rd September 2016 01:03 PM

Improved writing photo
 
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Writing on blade.

ilias 24th September 2016 10:41 AM

Very nice piece rand.
What makes you think is not silver?
Have you tried to clean it?
I will agree with Battara.
The patina looks like more for a silver one.
This kind of work was done only at quality pieces and of course at silver ones.
My guess is that it is silver.

rand 24th September 2016 12:56 PM

Scabbard
 
Hi Ilias,

At first I thought it was silver because of the high quality repousse. But then I tried to clean a small section that did not have gold wash and it definitely does not clean as coin grade silver does. Used flintz silver cleaner, the metal remained black in color and did not polish. In the photo's you can see a green color accumulation in spots, but you can see that wth silver too. The gold wash is thicker on this metal the gold wash on silver, it is also a darker gold color too. This is the first scabbard I have handled like this that is not silver.

kronckew 24th September 2016 03:16 PM

someone told me once that many yats had pewter fittings, maybe yours are gilded pewter?

pewter is mostly tin (92%-ish) with a small amt. of copper and antimony to harden it.

tin is the 4th most precious metal after platinum,gold,silver (then tin).
older pewter may have some lead in there too, modern pewter does not.
pewter darkens it's grey colour as it ages.

rand 24th September 2016 11:10 PM

Am familiar with pewter which is a different color, hardness and has a different affinity for adhering to gold. This is a hard, silver colored metal, that can oxidize black and also form a green corrosion.

You are right that pewter is used on islamic swords, daggers at times. You can see some pewter just under the bolsa on this yataghan, the scabbard is not pewter.

Thanks,

rand 25th September 2016 02:09 PM

Can anyone translate the writing on blade?

Thanks,

Battara 25th September 2016 06:32 PM

Rand, I have also worked on low silver content and that black patina can be crazy to get off unless you have jeweler's polishing equipment (which I have).

Also even sterling silver after a time will have a green patina in places.

rand 25th September 2016 08:45 PM

Battara,

There is always a chance it could be low grade silver, but I have serious doubt about that. Have had many yataghans with silver scabbards, chapes and throats, but never came across one such as this. If you have a test to suggest let me know.


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