Ethnographic Arms & Armour

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-   -   Swiss lionhead saber with brass covered hilt (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=28146)

midelburgo 22nd August 2022 10:07 PM

Swiss lionhead saber with brass covered hilt
 
12 Attachment(s)
It seems I made a little fumble.
I have been putting together a file of images of Spanish late XVIIth to late XVIIIth hilts covered with two brass or silver cylindrical pieces. Sometimes they meet at the middle sometimes they dont. They used the same kind on knifes up to the end of XIXth century
I also remembered a lion head saber, at the Luis Calvo chapter on early Spanish c1700 dragoon swords (bottom right). So called Washington Spanish swords, bottom left.

http://www.catalogacionarmas.com/public/48-DragS.pdf

So I saw this saber and I won it.

Now I know it is actually a Swiss saber. Spain never had Swiss mercenary cavalry. I still have to research French units in the Spanish sucession war.

Relevant threads:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=20946

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=27896

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=18464

Hotspur 23rd August 2022 12:51 AM

It is a Swiss bear, not a lion. In my opinion and research.

midelburgo 23rd August 2022 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hotspur (Post 274423)
It is a Swiss bear, not a lion. In my opinion and research.

Interesting. It makes sense. I cannot change the title now.

I have been giving a look to
Kriegswesen und Kriegskunst der schweizerischen Eidgenossen- Carl von Elgger

And I only find a citation for cavalry as foreign units were contracted to go with the swiss knechte. I see Swiss cavalry swords do not seem too exceptional, but I do not find the units.

fernando 24th August 2022 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by midelburgo (Post 274424)
Interesting. It makes sense. I cannot change the title now...

We can do that. What title would you like it be ?

midelburgo 26th August 2022 06:39 PM

7 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando (Post 274457)
We can do that. What title would you like it be ?

Felines that are plantigrads or something alike. Not needed really.

The sabre arrived. Very nice, very sharp. I have to decide if I touch the thumbring or it remains that crooked (but safe) way. A plate is missing on the oposite side, possibly brass (see example at the bottom).

Now. I still do not understand how something as minoritary as "Swiss cavalry" has left so many swords behind. If you read battle reports from the period, you have lots of croats everybattle, but no Swiss cavalry.

Searching on the web I almost see an evolution of these swords in XVIIIth century... reaching America!

werecow 27th August 2022 01:11 AM

4 Attachment(s)
Speaking of Swiss brass hilted sabers and pommels with heads, might as well post this here: this was on auction on catawiki last week. I did not buy it (although I estimate there is an 89.31% chance that it went to someone reading this forum on occasion), but I haven't seen anything too close to it before, so curious as to your thoughts. 87.5cm, sold as " Switzerland. 17/18 century Artistic, private production.".
Not sure if the head is that of a lion (or bear), but otherwise it seemed to fit this thread title too well not to mention it. Hope it's not too off topic.

EDIT: Also, is that thumb ring bent in the saber posted in the OP, or is that some configuration I'm not familiar with?

M ELEY 27th August 2022 09:22 AM

This saber would date to the late 17th/early 18th based on the finger ring configuration. The all-brass hilt indicates infantry/foot soldier, as does the longer curved blade. The usage of acorn finials would point to a Germanic or Swiss possibility, but can't really rule out Dutch due to the side guard. Nice sword!

midelburgo 29th August 2022 11:08 PM

4 Attachment(s)
I have been collecting some more pictures of these sabers.

Handling it I have reach the idea that it is not a proper cavalry weapon, rather a mounted officer one (infantry I guess). That makes more sense to the lack of Swiss cavalry units.

At the end of XVIIth century there were 12 regiments of Swiss Infantry at the service of the Spanish Habsburgs, so that conciliate my idea when I bought this sabre.

The question remains if it is apropiate to describe this sort of hilt as belonging to the walloon type. And if the lion-bear head pommels are exclusively Swiss, what can be said of swords with the same hilt but straight blades and ovoid/apple pommels?


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