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-   -   Albanian judicical- execution kilij? (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=6430)

eftihis 21st May 2008 03:19 PM

Albanian judicical- execution kilij?
 
1 Attachment(s)
Hallo i have seen this on a past auction under the above description, but with no other details or better photo.
It seems original, but have never seen something similar!
Any comments?

ariel 21st May 2008 06:41 PM

Very strange thingie..
I would not call it kilij, though. Rater, if anything, it looks like an Ottoman Sossun Pattah.
I would also want better documentation of its " execution" role. First, the scabbard is very utilitarian and " field-like"; second, execution swords everywhere tended to allow for a two-handed grip.
But, all doubts aside, a very impressive baby! I would not want to find myself on its receiving end.

Battara 21st May 2008 09:09 PM

I wouldn't call this a soussan pata either......

BTW - would not an Ottoman soussan pata be called a yataghan?

Jim McDougall 21st May 2008 11:12 PM

Maybe its a Black Sea sosun pattah ?!!

:)

Gavin Nugent 22nd May 2008 10:09 AM

It did sell recently
 
It did sell recently for $7500 dollars plus premiums, in fact the same collection that my Kindjals came from and others I have, from talking to the owner there are a good many more stories to be told about his aquistions. The collection was considered the greatest and most comprehensive antique arms collection on the eastern sea board of Australia. Food for thought.

enjoy

Gav

Yannis 22nd May 2008 12:45 PM

It is a unique kilij - yataghan combination, but I cannot see why it is called "Albanian" or execution sword. A normal heavy kilij would be better for the last.

ariel 22nd May 2008 02:35 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Battara
I wouldn't call this a soussan pata either......

BTW - would not an Ottoman soussan pata be called a yataghan?

Well, I should have added a :)
But, seriously, there are several varieties of Sossun Pattas: the Mughal one is, indeed, just a Yataghan with a "tulwar" handle.
But the Indian ones had recurved, widening blades not dissimilar from the one shown here.
You can see what I mean here
http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=2052
http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=659
http://www.flickr.com/photos/awrose/2250985675/

Bill M 22nd May 2008 11:20 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Indian

Gavin Nugent 23rd May 2008 08:56 AM

nnnnnnniiiiccceeeeee
 
ooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh I like that.

Gav

eftihis 12th October 2008 09:59 PM

UPDATE
 
5 Attachment(s)
Hi, i found something very relevant to the previous one! But this looks even more like a beheading sword.
Any translation of the arabic text?

Gavin Nugent 1st July 2010 10:16 PM

translation
 
Good people,

I have bought this forward in the hope that this tanslation question from some time ago doesn't go unanswered. I think with the wonderful help available by the very nice people who do translate, something may be learned of this very interesting sword, even if it is just a phrase or two.

Gav

Zifir 2nd July 2010 08:01 PM

Hi,
The first inscription is easy: La feta illa Ali la seyfe illa Zulfikar (There is no hero like Ali, there is no sword like Zulfikar)

I will look at the second inscription when I go back home next week, presently I have to use a 10" screen notebook which becomes quite annoying when it comes to deciphering arabic inscriptions. :(

Kurt 3rd July 2010 09:51 AM

This is a Pala from Algeria.
 
Hi ,

I'm sure this sword comes from Algeria.
See:
Splendeur thes arms Orientales.
Figure 62
Kurt

Gavin Nugent 4th July 2010 12:56 AM

Comments
 
Thanks Gents for bringing some more life to these old warriors.
I find them most interesting.

Gav

ArmsAndAntiques 5th January 2014 12:50 AM

And to resurrect an old thread, I'd like to point our attention to the recent Bob Hales publication, pg. 218, #538, where I believe this exact sword may have originated some years ago. Described by Mr. Hales as:

"An exceptionally rare Ottoman judicial sword, it has a watered blade, recurved and massively swollen towards the tip. It has a typically Algerian hilt made without a crosspiece and fitted with two-piece horn grips and a small silver shell device. See no. 537. It retains its leather scabbard fitted with engraved silver mounts; most of the back edge of the scabbard has a hinged silver cover to admit the extraordinary shaped blade. 18th or early 19th C."

Gavin Nugent 10th January 2014 12:14 AM

Mr Morgan did travel a lot with his wife and likely bought the sword from Bob Hales shop on one of his many trips abroad as he did discuss several other purchases he made abroad that were also sold when his collection was auctioned.

Perhaps Bob recalls Mr Morgan's visit?

Gavin


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