Ethnographic Arms & Armour

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-   -   Dutch M1815 Musket. (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=25012)

Norman McCormick 4th June 2019 05:50 PM

Dutch M1815 Musket.
 
8 Attachment(s)
Hi,
A Dutch M1815 No.2 musket dated 1819 with a later conversion to percussion. Butt stamped Delft 1845 and I presume this is the place and date of the percussion conversion. There were a number of manufacturers and I would be grateful if anybody could identify which one from the stamps in the photographs. I will photograph the stamps under the barrel if this would help. Here is an unconverted one in the Royal Armouries collection. https://collections.royalarmouries....rative-271.html

Regards,
Norman.

P.S. Here's a list of the Manufacturers.

* J Devillers: approx. 120,000 Nos.1 & 2
* Gebr. Malherbe: 52,000 Nos.1 & 2
* PJ Malherbe: 10,000 Nos.1 & 2
* MJ Malherbe de Goffontaine: 6,000 No.1
* JL de Loneux fils: 26,000 Nos.1 & 2
* P Lebens: 19,000 Nos.1 & 2
* J Walker (Birmingham): 8,000 Nos.1 & 2
* W&H Spangenberg: approx. 12,000 No.1

rickystl 5th June 2019 05:50 PM

Hi Norman

That is a nice 1815 Dutch musket. And appears in good condition. Sorry I can't help with the stamps/markings. But another Forum member will likely be able to lend his expertise.
It's obvious this was a well done arsenal conversion to percussion. So common with many of these muskets. And, it looks like a rear sight was added at the time of conversion.
Many details on this musket copied the original 1763/1777 pattern French muskets of this period. In fact, the original U.S. Springfield 1795 and later variations also copied the French musket. Even the original .69 caliber bore.
If my memory serves, Belgium was a prolific in manufacturing firearms and did many musket conversions for other European countries.

Nice piece, Rick

Norman McCormick 5th June 2019 06:50 PM

Hi Rick,
I'm pleased with the completeness of the musket, all the bits seem to be present and in reasonably good condition. The 69 calibre was a wee bit of a problem re ammunition for the ones that were used at Waterloo as the British guns were of a larger bore. I'll need to dismount the barrel I reckon to get some good makers marks and hope that one of our continental members can throw some light on the manufacturer. Thanks for your interest.
My Regards,
Norman.

Fernando K 5th June 2019 11:30 PM

Hello

In my opinion the barrel is not the original of flint. It does not present a plug covering the ear, nor a "masacote" or "bombeta" on the right side, nor on the upper part of the Barrel. The plate if it presents the remains of the bowl and the plug that covers the steel screw

Sorry for the translator. Affectionately

corrado26 6th June 2019 08:15 AM

6 Attachment(s)
Here are fotos of an other M 12815/38UM Dutch infantry gun with all the same details as shown on the first one. In my opinion thie gun and its barrel in question is absolutely original.
corrado26

Norman McCormick 6th June 2019 01:35 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Hi,
This photo shows where the touchhole once was. It is quite difficult to photograph as the 'machining' has been well done but it is the shiny spot on the barrel and the small circular plug can be seen quite clearly with the barrel in hand. This would imply the barrel is a converted from flintlock as Corrado has suggested. The rear barrel plug may have been replaced at the time of conversion as mine has an integral rear sight on the plug.
Regards,
Norman.

Norman McCormick 6th June 2019 01:52 PM

5 Attachment(s)
Hi,
Here are some more photographs, barrel band, inside lock, and underside of barrel. A crown over G.B. seems to be marked on most pieces as well as crown over D and crown over possibly I.R. The British style broad arrow is puzzling.
Regards,
Norman.

corrado26 6th June 2019 04:05 PM

The "GH" in the centre of the butt stamp stands for sub-inspector Johann Christian Heym of the Delft factory, this stamp says that the stock has been re-newed at Delft in 1840.
The crowned "D" at the brass rest of the pan stands for G.C.Dujardin (see Martens/de Vries, Nederlands Vuurwapens 1813-1866, p. 202 and H.L.Visser, Aspects of Dutch Gunmaking p. 383). Until 1840 the inspector's mark was also struck into the barrels, after this date this was stopped. But it looks as if the D-mark under crown has been struck at the barrel too though very faintly readable. This proofes that the barrel has been really converted from flintlock to percussion
corrado26

Fernando K 6th June 2019 04:35 PM

Hello

With all respect and without encouragement to discuss, but to establish the truth, the area that has been photographed, and that would correspond to the location of the touchole, is directly below the stamped crown, which would be too advanced. The "broad arrow" is just some brands with chisel to identify the operator who filed the barel, or inspection.


Sorry for the translator. Affectionately

Norman McCormick 6th June 2019 06:27 PM

9 Attachment(s)
Hi Guys,
Have photographed all the stamps I could find which might make things clearer. I'm not sure why there is an issue with the stamps on the top of the barrel near the old touchhole. Thanks for your continued interest.
My Regards,
Norman.


P.S/ Corrado, many thanks for the info you've provided.

corrado26 7th June 2019 12:53 PM

As it is clearly to be seen on the barrel it was made in 1819, so it was made during the flintlock-aera and after 1840 transferred into percussion ignition.
corrado26

Norman McCormick 7th June 2019 02:19 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by corrado26
As it is clearly to be seen on the barrel it was made in 1819, so it was made during the flintlock-aera and after 1840 transferred into percussion ignition.
corrado26



Hi Corrado,
I would entirely agree and as you know the lock has the crown and inspectors mark over 19 for 1819 as well. Many thanks for your valued comments.
My Regards,
Norman.


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