More.

Done for today.

m

katzbalgers
 

very nice pictures, I have 4 rare katzbalgers in my collection, one
published by J.Ypey.
I will place some pictures in this thread coming weekend.

Paintig of St. George, Swiss, ca. 1510, and a woodcut depicting hand-and-a-half swords from a fencing book of 1558.

Michael

A Katzbalger and two Boar Swords
 

The first boar sword, ca. 1510-20, sold at auction Galerie Fischer, Lucerne, Switzerland, May 19,1933.

The others preserved at the Deutsches Klingenmuseum (blade museum) Solingen. The boar sword ca. 1515, the Katzbalger ca. 1530.

Michael

Cornelistromp,

We look forward to seeing your pieces!

Michael

katzbalger 1500-1520

katzbalger early 16thC.
I found a similar piece in the "historischen Museum" in Bern Switserland
vgl. Wegeli Schwerter und Dolche nr 172

Both of them seem to be very fine pieces, Cornelis - thank you for sharing!

I am tempted to assign a date of ca. 1530 to the first because of its thickly ribbed pommel. Those ribs closely correspond to those found on both contemporary armor and barrels.

Is it posible to take a few good details of the brass grip showing its line decoration? That would be great.

You sure are one very lucky guy to get those, congratulations.

All the best,
Michael

Cornelistromp, these are wonderful items, thank you for posting. So far I like #2 in particular, bacause of the "munition grade" appearance, not counting the unusual decoration of the copper (?) rivets in the guard. I would love to see a photo of all 4 swords togather, to see the entire blades and relative sizes.

one side is a female saint Barbara with tower and feather at the reverse side
a man with a sword and a book probably saint Paul. this Katzbalger can be dated first quarter of the 16thC.

thank you.
ps:All the katzbalger of this particular type ( the 3 pieces I know) , have the same copper fillings at the quard.

developed Katzbalger, spain 1540

katzbalger 4 waterfind.

interesting picture there,
in the painting with the knight with the white plumed helmet at his feet the made is depicted as being of african origin....
this is interesting,
what is the meaning being displayed in the picture?
or is this from some factuial event showing a individuial who exsisted in history??

or is it just the artist using artistic license to make the picture more interesting??
im sure there were some africans in europe at the time , as the were in the middle east and ottoman possetions , aspecialy in istabul. and although id presume they were for the most part held as slaves no doubt some would have been free or would have been able to get to non moslem areas where slavery was not common or forbidden.

brings up another interesting topic, as to how much interacion there was medieval between the middle east and north africa and europe..

i have read some place that there is records dating from the 13th century showing arabs and persians being employed in the production of crossbows bars in london...... i wonder..

Ausjulius,

The depiction that you referred to is part of an altar piece by Hans Baldung Grien called The Adoration of the Magi. According to the New Testament, one of the Magi was Melchior and he indeed is said to have been of African nationality. So this knight represents Melchior.

Don't worry too much about seeing an African wearing a South German early Renaissance suit of armor. In fact, it has nothing to do with the actual historic clothing of African people 500 years ago. The reason why the master painter sort of put him into this armor lies in the fact that the early 16th century Germans who this altar piece was made for wished any work of art to reflect their own contemporary culture, including knightly suits of armor.

When interpreting sources of illustration it is very important to keep in mind the general historic self image of people and both their religious basis and everyday environment at those periods of time.

Michael

yes this is true.

i did not know the painting so i was interested in the origin of the image.
i understand there is a german saint from roman times who was popular in the past in some parts of western germany , who is typicaly depicted as being of african origin..?

Well, Ausjulius,

Actually the African King and Magi Melchior was not a specifically German person but a Christian Saint who, accompanied by two more kings (magi), had followed a star and come a long way from the East to see and adore the new born Jesus Christ. To be exact, The Lord Jesus Christ was not just popular in some parts of Western Germany at some time but has been one of the most imoprtant religious leaders wordwide for two thousand years. He founded Christianity.

Michael

Hi Cornelius,

May I repeat my request to get provided with some good detailed photographs of the figural representations on the brass grip of your first Katzbalger?

Thanks in advance for putting up with any inconveniences of photography! :)

Michael

michael,

of course, i added some text ,are you not afraid of abuse of pictures?

Best regards

Hi Cornelis,

Thank you for posting these - this is an important sample of a Katzbalger indeed!!! :) :cool:

Actually, Saint Barbara is holding, additionally to the church tower, a martyr's palm, not a feather.

Well, I am not really afraid of abuse of my pictures. On the other hand, as soon as I will have a digital camera I may protect them by a printed logo as well.

Michael

Hi Michael,

thank you, Im very happy with it :)
do you agree that the person with the book and the sword at the reverse side is Saint Paulus ?

regards from Holland

Hi Cornelis,

I must admit that I cannot clearly make out the figure on the reverse - could you please post a better image? Thank you. ;)

I have been collecting for almost 30 years and before puchasing my first piece I used to do intensive study. You will learn much more about me and my collection if care to you have a look at my earlier posts.

More comment on your other swords soon.

Best regards from Lower Bavaria,
Michael

An Important Landsknecht Katzbalger Saber, Southern Germany, ca. 1545
 

Now that the auction is over I can post this fine piece which a friend of mine acquired for his collection with a little help from myself.

The catalog description called it 'composite' but we think that the blade and hilt are contemporary. Also we do not think that the grip ever had a wire binding as no traces of it can be seen on the leather.

Michael

The rest.

How you like it, Cornelis? ;)

Michael

A related basket hilted sword, ca. 1570, sold Bonhams London, ex-Visser Collection, 2007. Unfortunately the detailed images that I received from the department are out of focus.

Michael

congratulations, excellent condition, I think it can be homo-gene 1540


cf ewart oakeshott, European arms&Armour p142.

And a Landsknecht sword, ca. 1530-40, sold Bonhams London, 25 July 2007.

Michael

The rest.

Hi Michael,

I have some better pictures for you ;)

Great, Cornelis!

We can't wait to see them - thanks a lot! :)

Michael

Thank you so much, Cornelis, good pictures indeed!

Btw, I sent you a private email!

Please do not forget to take a good image of the other figure on the brass grip of your Katzbalger (St. Paul?).

Best,
Michael

Hello Michael,

I replaced st paul for a better picture( at th e old position in this thread) and of course answered your private mail.

Best regards

Hi Cornelis,

I think that you were absolutely right in assigning that engraving to St. Paul as the figure holds a sword and Paul was decapitated.

Congratulations again, you have both an impressive and important line of Katzbalgers! :cool:

Best,
Michael

Various kinds of early 16th century weapons ...
 

... on a painting of the Resurrection by Simon Franck, ca. 1525, in the basilica of Aschaffenburg/Northern Bavaria.

Michael

Details.

Here they are. :rolleyes: :shrug:

Michael, since you have handled this swords, ¿can you please give me an idea of their weight and maximun thickness of the blade? I mean, I know there are variations, but wich are the most usual? Thank you very much in advance. I am very interested in the geometry and physical charcteristics of the swords in general.
Regards

Gonzalo

Hi Gonzalo,

I should estimate the maximum thickness of a Katzbalger blade at 5-7 mm at the forte but can offer exact data of the two Katzbalgers at the German Historic Museum Berlin the pictures of which I re-attach below for convenience:

1. overall length 79 cm, length of blade 67.1 cm, maximum width of blade 4.5 cm, weight 1.3 kg

2. overall length 91 cm, length of blade 77.5 cm, maximum width of blade 3.9 cm, weight 1.47 kg

And the data of the hand and a half sword are:
overall length 1.36 m, length of blade 1.05 m, maximum width of blade 4.9 cm, weight 2.19 kg.

Best regards,
Michael

Army Museum Stockholm
 

From Kisak's thread:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=9653

I think that the blade of the Katzbalger is a later addition as almost all original Katzbalger blades characteristically have short fullers at the forte. The pommel and quillons show Italian influence and are datable to the 1530's, the bone grip and brass band are replacements.

The hand and a half estoc is datable to ca. 1525-30, the pommel and quillons retaining much of their originally blued surface as well as their characteristic roped decoration; the two iron rings on the grip are later additions.

Tanks again, Kisak!

Michael