Russian Guard axes - questions
 

Dear Friends!

I'm looking for any informations, catalogue pictures and measurements of russian guard axes. I have only this one picture, posted below. I believe they were in use in 17th century, but maybe also earlier and later. They are of crescent shape, quite massive, and in general they seem to be similiar to parade axes known from Persia (tabar-zins) and Turkey.
I really hope you have something like this in your great libriaries :)

Thank you in advance!

Hi Wolviex, could the axes be from another country than Russia? The reason why I ask is, that I have been looking in the catalogue 'Musee de Tzarskoe-Selo', and not found anything looking like the axes you show, and I would expect to find axes like that in a catalogue from Russia - although it is no garantee. I am sure you have been looking in the catalogue too:).

Jens

These axes disappeared long begore Tsarskoe Selo collection was formed... I doubt there are any in St.Petersburg area, there are axes are so Moscow.

Hello Jens!
I'm sure axes are Russian. I was looking for them in some Russian books, but I found nothing. This picture is from old book "Risunki odiezdy u wooruzenija Rossijskich wojsk" (I tried to transliterate from Russian alphabet, so excuse me any mistakes.

Hello Rivkin!
Yes, I believe they're Moscow, while in 17th century the court was still on Kremlin.

Hello Wolviex,

Which museum in Moscow would have old weapons, are there an armoury museum in Kremlin?

When I had asked the question above, I remembered that I have a small booklet called ‘Repertory of Museums of Arms and Military History, Copenhagen 1960.

Centralnij Musej Sovetskoj Armij (Central Museum of the Soviet Army), Municipal Square 2, Moscow.

Oruzejnaja Palata (State Armoury), The Kremlin.

Gosudarstvennij Istoritjesti Musej (The State Museum of History), The Red Square, House No. 1-2.

I realise that some, if not all, the museums can have changed their name, but museums don’t often change address. I am sorry, but that is all I have.

Jens

They are very similar to Mamluk tabars.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y11...Axe1495-98.jpg

There is a book on e-bay right now dealing with russian tsars arsenal. I cannot post it now but will do when the auction ends. There is a picture of the ax in question.

Ariel, why don't you PM Wolveix wher to find it - he might even buy the book:)?

[QUOTE=Aqtai]They are very similar to Mamluk tabars.

Yes, and to those used in Persia. I think Russian ones were created because of Persian/Turkish influences, but it's pure conjecture at the moment.

Ariel, please PM the link to me ;). I don't know if I can buy the book, but I suppose it's worth to take a look. Thanks!

Stupid, I guess.....

Wolviex, you have a message!!!!!

The book Ariel mentioned is beautiful indeed. There is a picture of an axe (my sketch of this axe below), but I wonder is it Guards axe, while in presentation text we can find information about "Ambassadorial Axe". But I believe it's a good hint anyway! On the picture we can see that axe is inlayed with gold wire, there is Russian two-headed eagle among the other plaits.

Regards!

These axes are very different from the ancient rus ones. Attached are status
(lords') axes of the northern areas.

I heard that A.V. Viskovatov "Histrocal description of cloth and arms of russian military" has some depictions of old Kremlin guard.

btw, could it be polish in origin? Seems these axes are more similar to the weapon of russian strelzy (Harcerzy): berdysz (I always thought its a polish word ?)

Ok, it is described as "ambassadorial axe, short version of berdysz". The name is that same as the name of the guards themselves - Rynda, it says that it translates as "knights". Was established in 1479 by Basil the third, their weapon was called "ambassodorial axe" because during Ivan the Terrible their role was limited to being present during the visits of foreign ambassadors, they did not leave the residence itself. Their role as guards was transferred to oprichniks' guard. Reappeared as guards after the abolition of oprichniks. Abolished by Peter the Great.

Ha! Rynda! Google search help me to find that they were tar's personal bodyguards recruited from the noblemens, equipped with the best weapons and horses, always close to the emperor. There is a site with "Russian scale models" where is figurine of almost identical Rynda as on my picture, with axe, dated on 16th century. This axes (according to other forum - The Guild forums) are called "POSOLSKI TOPOR", but I have no idea what this "posolski" is meaning :confused: . Most of the russian-language people are tending to call such axes "berdish/berdysz". Rivkin, I always thought it's Russian word :). Berdishes, in strictly todays meaning, were great axes, with long edge. They were in use first of all in Russia, then in 17th century in Poland. After the years, the "Berdish" word is often assign to just "big axe" I think.

Are you sure AMBASSADORIAL is the same as RYNDA? I always thought that ambassador is some kind of envoy from another country. And if Ambassadors were called Rynda, maybe it's just the same word for two different things? Uh, I think I will need some explanation before I get lost :)

Regards

Ryndas were bodyguards, not ambassadors; but they were always present during the reception of foreign ambassadors by Ivan the Terrible, therefore the name "ambassadorial (in russian - posolski) axe".

hi michal,
i assume this is the axe that you have drawn (silhouette).
it is thought to be 1st half of the 17thC, but no exact date is known.

Ah! Stupid me! In Polish - posolski=poselski :) now it's so obvious.Thank you Rivkin!

Hi Brian! This is exactly the same axe! I'm happy about the date, because I'm looking for the axes just from this period (strictly around 1640-50). Thank you for this photo.

If anybody have any other pictures or informations, please post them! I will be happy if you'll find any other examples of such axes from territories on the East of Poland (except Ottoman and Persian ones, these are well known).

Thank you and regards!

*bump*

Another picture of russian axe of this type, from known 16th century engraving, where you can also find other Russian weapons and armament. If anyone have other pictures or informations, please post them here.

Regards!

hi michal,
not sure if this is of any use, nor whether you will be able to read it here. if not, i will email you a larger pic if requested. it has the stats at the top.

Thank you Brian, everything is legible, and this text is next great help. As we can read, they are great rarity. But this is rarity of ambassadorial axes, I wonder what about simple war axes, or just ceremonial axes (if there were any) like this presented on engraving, with other (most or less) popular or known weapons. Well, we have sabres, bows, saddles, everything what we can find on this picture, but axes :confused:

Regards

If I had to guess, and it is a wild guess, I'd say that your picture in the firstpost predates the example pictured in BI's post. The genuine article seems more decorated, ceremonial maybe, than the ones that are drawn.

The drawn axes look business-like. Not just pretty.

Brian