Ethnographic Arms & Armour

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-   -   Pics: Jawa Demam Hilts (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=4594)

ganjawulung 17th May 2007 04:32 PM

Pics: Jawa Demam Hilts
 
4 Attachment(s)
Dear All,

I always keep these "three brothers" in one place. I believe, they are all brothers. I found these three brothers in Cirebon, north-west side of Central Java. In the old days, people in this region (including Tegal), they wore their identities: some times other people's identity. Maybe, these Jawa Demam too..

I hope you don't feel disturb with pictures of my collections...

ganjawulung

David 17th May 2007 06:40 PM

Thanks Ganja, nice hilts. I also have two keris with raksasa hilts that i call brothers and keep together, so i understand your thinking. :)
I might be off base, but that first example (on the left in the photo of all 3) of yours looks a bit Sumatran. :)

Marcokeris 18th May 2007 01:19 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Nice Hits Ganja!
A question: how is possible to understand in right way if the Jawa Demam's handles are from Cirebon area istead of Sumatra.
There are some angles (maybe in the bacK?) or is fonly for decoration or for the cut in the base?
Thanks


Here i put a photo of many other Yogya brothers ( a chics'brood !)

ganjawulung 18th May 2007 04:53 PM

Cirebon
 
Dear Marco,

Cirebon was an important Sultanate in Indonesia, in the 15th and 16th century. And it was an important port too in Java and South-east Asia beside Malacca. You still can find many of foreign influence in Cirebon until today. In the old days, even (Chinese great seaman) Cheng Ho had visited this port in the nort-west side of Central Java.

Cirebon's culture, was mixture of Indian, Arabic and Chinese influence. So, no wonder if other island culture and art influenced Cirebon too. One of their famous Sultan was Sunan Gunung Jati. He was mix-blood of Persian, Javanese (grand father is the King of Pajajaran Kingdom, Prabu Siliwangi), and he was married to a chinese princess Ong Tin Nio -- daughter of Ming dynasti from Champa or China.

Cirebon was the aliance of other Islamic Kingdom in Nusantara, Demak (Central Java) and Banten (West Java). So, no wonder too if there was Sumatranese influence.

I have many kinds of Cirebonese hilts, beside the Jawa Deman style, and even Rajamala (shorter than kingfisher's nose), and wayang or bajang (demon-giant) hilts. Quite unique.

Alam Shah 18th May 2007 05:07 PM

Ganja,

Hmmm... your first 3 paragraphs seems familiar (Keris - 3rd Ed?). ;)
Ganja, if you don't mind, share the pictures with us? :)

ganjawulung 20th May 2007 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alam Shah

Ganja, if you don't mind, share the pictures with us? :)

Shahrial,

Sorry for being late to answer you. Of course, I will share the pictures with you, with pleasure. I am still taking fotos of them. Pls wait for a couple moments...

ganjawulung 22nd May 2007 09:39 PM

Shahrial's Request
 
4 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Alam Shah
Ganja,

Hmmm... your first 3 paragraphs seems familiar (Keris - 3rd Ed?). ;)
Ganja, if you don't mind, share the pictures with us? :)

Dear Shahrial,

As I promised yesterday, I will share the pictures with you. These are some Cirebonese hilt. Not "demam" (fever) anymore, look at the hand position: no more cross their hearts, but lay their hand at their bent knees.

Some people call such hilt as "buta bajang" (demon-giant), or "wayang" hilt. The long nose one, is Rajamala hilt. A wayang figure..

Alam Shah 23rd May 2007 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ganjawulung
... Some people call such hilt as "buta bajang" (demon-giant), or "wayang" hilt. The long nose one, is Rajamala hilt. A wayang figure..

Thank you, ganja for sharing. I do have an example of a "buta bajang" hilt mounted on a keris.

I've studied hilts for sometime now, however my knowledge is still limited. :o
I found books from Martin Kerner, Vanna, Tammens, Suhartono and Bambang to be the most helpful, regarding hilts. Books from Van Duuren, Frey, Haryono and a few others do contain many hilts examples / illustrations also providing a good source of knowledge.

Physically handling the hilts provides another dimension of learning, having the chance to see the detailing works from various angles, material used, weight distribution, grasping techniques, not possible from pictures. I'm lucky to have friends and dealers whom are willing to share their items with me. :)

ganjawulung 23rd May 2007 02:33 AM

Wow,

What an inspiring web! I dream someday I'll have my own web like yours. So we could share with other people on our keris. I have already some collection, but not as many as yours yet.

I had offered by Bentara Budaya Jakarta (a good place for cultural exhibition in Indonesia) to make a kind of (Keris Hilts) Exhibition this year. Do you have any idea? Or may be it will be possible for you to join the exhibition here?

I met once with Mr Suhardjono from Surabaya a couple years ago. We shared together on kerises, and for him, especially on keris hilts. (At that time, he was working for a nikel corporation in Soroako, Sulawesi. He's engineer and keris lover). And he gave me his book on handle.

I am waiting for your sharing on the exhibition's idea, Shahrial...

ganjawulung 23rd May 2007 03:00 AM

Old Hilt
 
3 Attachment(s)
Shahrial,

I have this strange old hilt. Is it worth for something to tell? Its figure was elephant headed 'god'. Do you have some reference on it?

David 23rd May 2007 04:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ganjawulung
Some people call such hilt as "buta bajang" (demon-giant), or "wayang" hilt. The long nose one, is Rajamala hilt. A wayang figure..

Yes, the long-nosed one is a wayang hilt, but what of the other figurative hilts you show? Are these also "buta bajang"? Up until this point i would have referred to them as "raksasa", which is also a demon-giant AFAIK. Would that term not be correct for these hilts?

ganjawulung 23rd May 2007 04:31 AM

Dear David,

Buta and Raksasa are the same meaning, Dave.. Buta (Javanese) and Raksasa (Indonesian). Buta Bajang in Javanese is more specific. Bajang means "kerdil" in Indonesian or something like "dwarf" (but giant) creature. So "buta bajang" litterally, means "dwarf giant"... so contradictory. There are so many contradictory terms in Javanese world. Javanese itself is contradictory too. Imagine. They (we) have so many powerful kerises and spears, though had been colonialized by certain nations... (That's our daily joke in Java). Thanks Dave, for the attention...

David 23rd May 2007 05:14 AM

Thank you Ganja, there is so much to learn. :)
And please do not worry too much when you have some words that you find hard to translate. It will always be that way with languages. The general English rule on this forum is not so strict as to not understand this. Some words just won't translate. What is important is that we keep the conversation in one language while we try to work out the details of these translations just so that we all understand each other. And as i stated in another thread, certain keris terms such as "gonjo" really have no better English equivalent. :)

Marcokeris 23rd May 2007 11:19 AM

Ganja
Your hits collection is beautifull! A real party for my eyes

ganjawulung 23rd May 2007 05:03 PM

Fever and No More Fever
 
2 Attachment(s)
Look,

Actually the difference of these eight brothers lays upon their hands. The first "fever" four, is shivering with fever. And hand-crosses their hearts. And the other four, no more shivering. No more hand-crosses. And just put their hands in their bent knees... Still brothers?

VVV 23rd May 2007 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ganjawulung
Shahrial,

I have this strange old hilt. Is it worth for something to tell? Its figure was elephant headed 'god'. Do you have some reference on it?

Nice hilts!

The elephant head is Ganesha.
Depending on what intellectual level of Shivaism you follow he is either:
- the son of Shiva and Parvati
- the son of only Parvati (no father)
- the son of Shiva's cakti (female side of the same being) Parvati.

I have gathered some information on this page on him:

http://www.kampungnet.com.sg/modules...view_album.php

On your other hilts I believe the Jawa Demam/Garuda is the youngest version?

The wayang or raksasa hilts are found on the archaic hilts and their position are more the traditional ancestor position (kneeling with hands on their knees). The Indian name of this position is Pralambapada (as this is Hindu influenced hilts).
Here is some more info on a related Cirebon hilt:

http://www.kampungnet.com.sg/modules...view_album.php

Michael

ganjawulung 23rd May 2007 10:08 PM

The Chatting Hilts
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by VVV
Nice hilts!

The elephant head is Ganesha.
Depending on what intellectual level of Shivaism you follow he is either:
- the son of Shiva and Parvati
- the son of only Parvati (no father)
- the son of Shiva's cakti (female side of the same being) Parvati.

On your other hilts I believe the Jawa Demam/Garuda is the youngest version?

The wayang or raksasa hilts are found on the archaic hilts and their position are more the traditional ancestor position (kneeling with hands on their knees). The Indian name of this position is Pralambapada (as this is Hindu influenced hilts).

Yes, Michael,

Older Cirebonese hilts I've found, either with Garuda form, or Ganesha (elephant) derivation. Some younger, are abstract form of Ganesha. But now, look! What are these hilts are talking about? (The far right is a Cirebonese sword handle with elephant motive).

Ganjawulung

Alam Shah 24th May 2007 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ganjawulung
Yes, Michael,

Older Cirebonese hilts I've found, either with Garuda form, or Ganesha (elephant) derivation. Some younger, are abstract form of Ganesha. But now, look! What are these hilts are talking about? (The far right is a Cirebonese sword handle with elephant motive).

Ganjawulung

The far left is a makara hilt. Also found on Kujangs. ;)
VVV, BluErf, Marco and some others have lots of knowledge about hilts, more than I. :)

VVV 24th May 2007 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ganjawulung
Yes, Michael,

Older Cirebonese hilts I've found, either with Garuda form, or Ganesha (elephant) derivation. Some younger, are abstract form of Ganesha. But now, look! What are these hilts are talking about? (The far right is a Cirebonese sword handle with elephant motive).

Ganjawulung

Ganja,

I can't see if the far right is a Makara or Ganesha based on the picture?

On the message of the hilts several books has been written about this.
My favourites are:

Kerner, Martin, 2000, Keris-Griffe; Aus Museen und Privatsammlungen, Kirchdorf

and

Sejr Jensen, Karsten,1998, Den Indonesiske Kris – et symbolladet våben, Næstved

The first in German and the second in Danish.
But Karsten is soon releasing a new book/CD and this time in English.

The easy explanation is that the hilts represents the attributes of the figures.
Like Ganesha has wisdom, is giver of success in all undertaings and is also known as the Lord of obstacles.
And the hero Bima (fearful, terrible) can travel with the speed of the wind and is stronger than 1000 elephants.

Michael

Alam Shah 24th May 2007 10:46 AM

A clearer picture. :confused:

Marcokeris 24th May 2007 12:50 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by ganjawulung
Shahrial,

I have this strange old hilt. Is it worth for something to tell? Its figure was elephant headed 'god'. Do you have some reference on it?

Hallo, Ganja
I found this pictures
The first is from the book "Indonesian Ornamental Design" edit by Pepin Press
(look the second hit on the bottom)
The other (but this is a gana hit ) from last M. Kerner's book "keris griffe aus museen..."
Another good book about keris hit is "keris invincible" by V. Ghiringhelli; do you have this book?
another is Tammens' De Kris vol. 3 (good, but with black and white picture)
another is "krisgrepen" by Engel (common book with black and white pictures)
There are also a good article about keris is "The hilt of the kris" by Cedric Dauphin in the book "Parcours des mondes n.1 (but with some pictures take from another ghiringhelli's book/i think without permission).
...To morrow i scanner a photo of a Makara Hit

Alam Shah 24th May 2007 02:14 PM

Makara hilt.
 
2 Attachment(s)
The makara in Martin Kerner's book "Keris-Griffe aus dem malayischen Archipel", (pg:23, Fig 12). The carvings in Kerner's book is much better than ganja's example.

The 'sort-of' translated text: ;)
The black buffalo-horn handle, out of Java was carved as a Makara, a mythical Chimare (vampire?) with elephant head and fish body. The Traufsteine of the temple concern of Borobudur are formed in this type.

Not very meaningful translation, (but hey... I'm not German).:shrug: (Pics below for comparison).

ganjawulung 24th May 2007 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alam Shah
...The black buffalo-horn handle, out of Java was carved as a Makara, a mythical Chimare (vampire?) with elephant head and fish body...

At least the same,
My "sword" handle (or maybe big keris?) with "makara" motives was made of "sungu kebo" or the black buffalo-horn handle. So old, that the black horn now seems like wood...

Alam Shah 24th May 2007 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ganjawulung
At least the same,
My "sword" handle (or maybe big keris?) with "makara" motives was made of "sungu kebo" or the black buffalo-horn handle. So old, that the black horn now seems like wood...

I have a kujang with this hilt, but a bit broken, see here.

Marcokeris 25th May 2007 08:53 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Nice old piece, Alam
Here a photo of another makara (a rather new hit)

VVV 25th May 2007 09:13 AM

Hi all,

Nice collection of makara hilts.
Thanks Shahrial for the lighter picture. I couldn't see any scales before.
On the illustration from Indonesian Ornamental Design actually that is a rip off too from the older book with the same name by van der Hoop, printed 1949 in "Bandoeng" by the "Koninklijk Bataviaasch Genootschap van Kunsten en Wetenschappen".
Another style of Makara hilt will be published in Karsten's coming new book.
We were at an auction together and he picked up a much chubbier version than the ones in this thread.

Michael

ganjawulung 25th May 2007 09:45 AM

Makara's Derivation?
 
3 Attachment(s)
Are these also derivations of Makara's motive? These six hilts are typical Cirebonese, and also Tegal hilts (Northern Coast of Central Java). They are abstraction of elephant figure (stylized elephant figure?).

Ganjawulung

Marcokeris 25th May 2007 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VVV
Hi all,

Nice collection of makara hilts.
Thanks Shahrial for the lighter picture. I couldn't see any scales before.
On the illustration from Indonesian Ornamental Design actually that is a rip off too from the older book with the same name by van der Hoop, printed 1949 in "Bandoeng" by the "Koninklijk Bataviaasch Genootschap van Kunsten en Wetenschappen".
Another style of Makara hilt will be published in Karsten's coming new book.
We were at an auction together and he picked up a much chubbier version than the ones in this thread.

Michael

Hallo Michael
Please could you tell some more news about the new Karsten's book?
(When will be edit, subject, ...)
Thanks
Marco

Alam Shah 25th May 2007 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VVV
...Nice collection of makara hilts.
Thanks Shahrial for the lighter picture. I couldn't see any scales before.
On the illustration from Indonesian Ornamental Design actually that is a rip off too from the older book with the same name by van der Hoop, printed 1949 in "Bandoeng" by the "Koninklijk Bataviaasch Genootschap van Kunsten en Wetenschappen".
Another style of Makara hilt will be published in Karsten's coming new book.
We were at an auction together and he picked up a much chubbier version than the ones in this thread.

Michael

No problem, Michael. Imho, ganjawulung's hilt is probably an improved, simplified version of the makara, hence the missing scales. :)

I'll be looking forward to Karsten's new book, as well. :D

Alam Shah 25th May 2007 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ganjawulung
Are these also derivations of Makara's motive? These six hilts are typical Cirebonese, and also Tegal hilts (Northern Coast of Central Java). They are abstraction of elephant figure (stylized elephant figure?).

Ganjawulung

No, these hilt are not derived from the makara. These are ganesha-inspired hilts. ;) It seems that you've quite a lot of nice hilts. Are you a hilt collector,as well? :)

VVV 25th May 2007 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcokeris
Hallo Michael
Please could you tell some more news about the new Karsten's book?
(When will be edit, subject, ...)
Thanks
Marco

Hello Marco,

Hopefully it will be available early this Fall.
It will cover all Keris areas and is 400+ pages in colour with several keris from museums and other European collections.
Last time I talked with Karsten I was told that it will be published as a CD because of the size etc.

Michael

ganjawulung 25th May 2007 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alam Shah
No, these hilt are not derived from the makara. These are ganesha-inspired hilts. ;) It seems that you've quite a lot of nice hilts. Are you a hilt collector,as well? :)

Yes Shahrial,
But I'm still beginner in collecting hilts. Hilts with motives, I have mostly Cirebonese (twenty or more), Madurese and mostly "nunggak semi" hilts (Solonese and Yogyakartanese) without motives.

Kerises? Not too many. In my "mad period" about six years ago, I had been searching and searching kerises throughout Java island. From village to village, sometimes cross the river by foot just to get one keris in Central Java. Or sometimes, I traveled alone for days from Jakarta to East Java, just to gather one or two kerises... At that time, I had about 600 kerises. Oh, but now is "only" about 100 kerises and tombaks (spears) or so. Some were fake kerises, or bad kerises. I've sold some too, to buy better kerises..

ganjawulung 26th May 2007 04:11 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Are these handles from the same root? I don't know for sure, whether this other handle (Cirebonese sword handle) is derived from Makara figure. A kind of abstraction as most of Cirebonese hilts in the Islamic era..

Ganjawulung

ganjawulung 30th May 2007 03:29 AM

Abstraction of Jawa Demam?
 
2 Attachment(s)
Is this the abstraction of the Jawa Demam?
Do let me know, please...

VVV 30th May 2007 06:11 AM

I suspect that your sword handle also is a makara.
Your keris hilt, with female forms, usually is considered to represent Durga, a shakti of Shiva.

Michael

ganjawulung 30th May 2007 09:27 AM

Hi Michael,

I know, you will share your knowledge on handles (hilts). It is interesting for me, because the Ensiklopedi Keris didn't mention a word on makara (Correct me if I'm wrong).

Anything you know about Durga hilt?

A. G. Maisey 30th May 2007 09:29 AM

Michael, I have heard this form of jejeran repeatedly claimed as a representation of Durga.

Can you tell me where this belief first arose?


In respect of Durga, I think it may be more correct to refer to her as one of the forms Devi.

Devi, the daughter of Himavat (the Himalayas), is the wife of Shiva.

Devi has many names,which refer to her many forms, attributes and actions, and as the wife of Shiva she is Shiva's Shakti, or female energy.

In her terrible form she is known as Durga, but it is incorrect to refer to Durga as Shiva's Shakti: Devi is Shiva's shakti.


In Jawa and Bali, Dewi Sri is the goddess of rice, essentially the mother of life, as she has power over rice. Her name is a compound of Devi (Shiva's wife, Maha-Devi, the Great Goddess), and Lakshmi who also has the name Sri, and is a wife of Vishnu and the goddess of fortune.Thus, Dewi Sri represents life and death, and good fortune.

I have only ever heard this form of jejeran referred to in Jawa as "wadon"---woman, however, it is my firm belief that it is a representation of Dewi Sri , not Durga. I can see no basis in Javanese traditional belief for Durga to be represented in a jejeran, on the other hand there is ample justification for Dewi Sri to appear as a jejeran.


Coming back to my original question:- where did this Durga belief first arise?

VVV 30th May 2007 12:50 PM

Alan,

This is a very complex question to answer because of, as you know, Hinduism is not one religion and even Shivaism includes a lot of different beliefs.
But I will give it a try based on my present understanding (which may radically change in the future the more I study it) and in English, which is not my native tongue.

A. What is Shiva?

Shiva is something abstract and could be understood in many ways:

1. Shiva is formless and could only be explained with what he is not.
2. Shiva could be slightly understood when he manifests himself in this world (as shakti).
He creates, maintains and destroys this world but he is also the one who hides the true world (illusion/veil, maya) and saves with his mercy.
Shiva has both male (passive) and female (active - shakti) aspects explained as:

a) The "intellectual version"
Shiva is in a vertical line divided into a male and female body. This means that shakti is not a separate devi but an aspect of Shiva's two sides.
Sometimes this is also represented by the active female shakti who is dancing on the passive, sleeping, male Shiva. Shiva has no form (nirguna) but shakti has form (saguna). When Shiva manifest himself in the world he uses shakti, the female form, that has several names like Uma, Parvati, Durga, Kali, Ganga etc. depending on what it's supposed to do. But they are all Shiva and not separate goddesses.

b) The "folk version".

Shiva is a god who is married to the goddess Devi. In the stories Devi has several incarnations as Uma, Parvati etc. Sometimes f.i. Parvati creates a manifestation as Durga etc. Probably the different names originates from local variations and former goddesses?

B. Why Durga?

Durga is a form of the Shakti/Maha-Devi [depending on version a) or b) above].
I have found three reasons to believe it's probable that it's specifically Durga and not the overall Maha-Devi on the hilts:

a) Durga is specifically mentioned in old sources connected with keris, f.i. the Keris Ki Lobar with Durga Dingkul of Gajah Mada (Wiener p. 110) as well as Kerner's different works - f.i. Der keris Ki Sudamala or Keris-griffe aus Museum und privatsammlungen. Probably M Kerner is the one to best answer your question on why Durga?

b) There are several sculptures of Durga found on Java, connected to the Shiva-cult, and she is connected with victory and death.

c) The face is never realistic portrayed on these hilts, as f.i. the Raksasa hilts, but hidden or veiled. According to a myth no man will survive seeing the face of Durga. This is not the case with Devi-Sri according to my understanding?

Michael

VVV 30th May 2007 04:02 PM

Alan,

I forgot to mention that there is a connection in some stories between Durga and maybe "your" Devi-Sri?
One version is that Durga is Shiva's shakti supported by the shaktis of the other devas. This means that Durga is the combined shakti of all the deva gods even if Shiva is supposed to be the lead shakti. This happened f.i. in one version of the story on how Durga slained the buffalo asura Mahisha (who couldn't be killed by the hand of a man due to a boon granted to him by Brahma).
In this version Durga could be seen as the combined mother goddess (maybe like the Balinese Devi-Sri who I am not that familiar with?).
That's the problem with Hindu myths; so many story versions, levels of understanding and sometimes contradictions.

Michael

Marcokeris 30th May 2007 04:28 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by ganjawulung
Are these handles from the same root? I don't know for sure, whether this other handle (Cirebonese sword handle) is derived from Makara figure. A kind of abstraction as most of Cirebonese hilts in the Islamic era..

Ganjawulung

Hi Gangja
Aso in my opinion the sword handle comes from Makara figure.
Your other keris hit could be Durga ...but also some other veiled woman.
In Lombok adn Bali (see Djelenga book) there are also other hilt like this but made in local style.
Here below i put a jawa hit. IMO is another Durga in cirebon style.


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