Scary lady, a bit like my wife, possibly a bigger calibre needed, perhaps something from your Forts of Oman. :eek: :eek: :eek: :D
My Regards,
Norman

Salaams Norman,
Or like Mons Meg the great old cannon from your castle in Edinburgh !!
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi. :)

The details at http://www.martinihenry.com/faq.htm are interesting...particularly on the Khyber version...etc.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi. :shrug:

As a general addition of text to a picture I posted a while ago and an excuse to fire the Martini Henry back into discussions~ For those not familiar with the weapon please see http://www.martinihenry.com/



A RARE EUROPEAN GOLD AND SILVER WIRE-INLAID SPORTING RIFLE FOR THE OTTOMAN MARKET, 19TH CENTURY

The Martini-Henry rifle with slender barrel of cast steel and wooden sighting plate with gold wire-inlaid floral motifs, the wood stock and butt plate with silver wire-inlaid ornamentation, wood butt plate also comprises carving of military devices.

Martini rifles were supplied to the Ottoman forces in large numbers. Following the victory of the Prussians in Europe in 1866, the Ottomans instituted major military reforms inaugurated by Hussein Avni Pasha in 1869. As a result, in the war against Russia in 1877-8, Ottoman troops
were armed with Martini Henry and Snider rifles as well as the new metal cartridge which the Russians did not yet possess.

:) Below Henry+11th+Hussars+Gordon+Relief+Expedition in the black and white photo.

For a fascinating paper on how the flow of guns developed in Arabia in the late 19thC. with some emphasis on Martini Henrys but involving politics and intrigue at the time and a distilled appreciation of the bigger regional picture ...

see http://pdxscholar.library.pdx.edu/cg...en_access_etds

The author suggests collusion in using the slave trade to mask the ever growing arms trade used to import huge amounts of rifles through Arabia for Afghanistan among other recipients... :shrug:

Sketch of Arms being unloaded at Muscat. :shrug:

Picture of the business end... :shrug: Amazingly cutting the woodwork back and sawing several inches off the barrel and thereby losing the bayonet lug...this weapon lost hardly any accuracy and to my knowledge represents one of the lightest and most powerful combat rifles ever made !

The best reference on Martini Henry is still I believe http://www.martinihenry.com/ and with a very good Bibliography. :shrug:

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi. :shrug:

This is about as ornate as they come second only to the gold inlaid weapon on this thread earlier.....The Martini Henry. :shrug:

I have a Belgian export Martini Henry, with Omani-type decoration, but in the meantime here are two pics from Nizwa: A man strolling in the street with a Martini, maybe to have repaired or to sell, and then some merchants, with the son tackling the rusted breech of a Lee Enfield No.4 MK1 with a pocket knife.

Great pictures and typical of a scene in a gun shop in Oman with several hundred years of technology all clashing together !!! :shrug:

This is probably off topic, but I love the Martini action, and I just couldn't resist throwing this comment into the pool.

There is a small version of the Martini action that is known as the Martini Cadet, in Australia it was used to train school cadets in use of the rifle, which at that time was considered to be essential for the defence of our country, the idea was that every man in Australia should be able to handle a rifle with competence.

In about 1958 the Australian defence forces sold these Cadet Martinis and they became available to the general public through firearms retailers. When they first hit the market they sold for ten shillings each. After a few months the price went up to twenty shillings (one pound) and it bounced around at that level for a long time.

As soon as they hit the market I bought 6 or 8 of these Martinis, I had a Sydney gunsmith named Don Black do conversions on them to various calibres --- .218Bee, .219 Zipper, and in the early 1960's to a rimmed version of the .222 Remington, plus a few others. One of these Remington conversions was done by a precision gunsmith named Bill Marden, it used a sleeved barrel and for a short time held a benchrest record for its weight class. I made the wood for all these conversions, used each one for a short time, then sold it.

Over the years I did perhaps as many as 20 or so Martini conversions. I've still got three, a couple of .218 Bees and a .22 rimfire.

I love Martinis, they are a purely beautiful action.

Apart from the Martini Cadets, I've also owned a couple of Hammerli Free Pistols, again, beautiful machines.

Here are 3 I dug up off https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/brit...ets-t9246.html on the web....

Martini Cadet conversion, circa 1961, metal work Don Black, Lithgow barrel, chambered for .218K Bee (similar to Mashburn Bee), Pecar 4X scope, I did the stock.

The Battle of Maiwand.

War: Second Afghan War

Date of the Battle of Maiwand: 27th July 1880.

Place of the Battle of Maiwand: West of Kandahar in Southern Afghanistan.

Interesting stock shape on this one.......It strongly resembles the Albanian Rasak stock.
Was there a caption with this pic and if so what did it say?
Stu

It is Rasak. Or rather Kariophili. The letters along the barrel are greek.

It has a Greek inscription in Niello mentionimg the maker (decorator)

Yes it looks like a Greek Version of the Martini Henry...Meanwhile here is a weapon from up the Khyber. :shrug:

Any ideas on the provenance on these?

Martini Henry Parts. For a lot of mixed detail on this weapon see https://www.google.com/search?q=mart...WFG5Oou22g3wM:

The Martini Henry was adopted by the Ottoman Empire and a number were highly decorated for VIP gifts see https://www.google.com/search?q=otto...0NcRPQQ22K9dM:

Here is another one

Ah nice... Oh I see the loaded indicator arrow is fitted upside down... :shrug:

australian issue?

HAHAHA ! :)

THE INVENTOR; Alexander Henry was the Scot who developed the rifling for the Martini-Henry rifle.

The other Inventor Friedrich von Martini .

Some Pics..

Note Butt disk: End of a Kynoch cartridge?

Henry O. Peabody.
 

But probably the most important ...Mr Henry O. Peabody;

The Martini-Henry Rifle is a weapon of Empire. Unlike the Snider-Enfield it replaced, it was England's first service rifle designed from the ground up as a breechloading metallic cartridge firearm. It protected and served the British Empire and her colonies for over 30 years. This robust weapon utilized a falling block, self-cocking, lever operated, single-shot action designed by Friedrich von Martini of Switzerland. The barrel used the Henry Rifling System, designed by Alexander Henry.

Henry O. Peabody, an American, was actually the father of the Martini action. His design utilized an external hammer to strike a firing pin for cartridge ignition. Mr. Martini's refinement of the design basically consisted of conversion to an internal coiled spring activated striker. Martini's improved design flourished and Mr. Peabody's is nearly forgotten. Later in the British Martini's career, other rifling patterns such as the Metford System and even a system devised at Enfield were adopted. It is therefore common to hear these weapons also referred to as Martini-Enfields or Martini-Metfords.

some more pics..

Note use of brass cap on blade of foresight...

I assume this is Omani, but could be from elsewhere on the Arabian peninsula.

See how the sling is short for being slung underarm, with the weapon carried almost under the armpit whilst riding.

Not sure about manufacture...traces of decoration..Belgian export? Or based on post nr.3 of this thread, maybe Pakistan/ Kyber area manufacture.

Note markings on barrel behind rear sight: 'Birmingham'?

Also, see the unit disk, I suppose in imitation of a British rifle..

Interesting to see the Rasak version (Post no 50) seems to be sporting a date of 1866, which is before the the general adoption of the Martini action and possibly it's invention.
Best wishes
Richard

Bayonets!

In answer to Khanjar! and Richard G; The Razak butt is similar to the one on Martini Henry shown, however, the inscribed almost scribbled date is spurious as they hadn't supplied them yet. Add to that; the butt may have either been a special consignment for this presentation piece or simply a standard Martini Henry heavily worked on and specially carved.. In fact the supply of Martini Henrys was to be a fiasco of huge proportions as lawsuit on top of lawsuit as well as skulduggery and even ships sinking on route plus financial documents from Bodaciea's chariot which may well have been signed Mickey Mouse...etc.

The Rasak below is described as Quote"Description: A flintlock rasak gun dating: second quarter of the 19th Century provenence: Balkans round, smoothbore, 18 mm cal. barrel with a molded muzzle and an iron foresight, sighted breech with a small engraving; flat plate-lock engraved with floral motifs; long.'' Unquote.

At Omdurman. The Martini Henry was there although not with the 8,000 British contingent though a few may have still carried it perhaps in the cavalry carbine role etc but the 16,000 plus Sudanese and Egyptian contingent had them... and the artist has clearly captured the huge powder cloud building up in front of the firing line obscuring the target somewhat. :shrug:

Isandlwana.
 

One excellent reference sits at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martini%E2%80%93Henry covering the technical and practical data of the Martini Henry.

Another reference covers the battle at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Isandlwana

One of the darkest days for the British Army was the battle of Isandlwana against the Zulu. Much of the blame was initially rumoured upon malfunctions or getting the MH ammunition boxes opened. This was untrue and although a number of weapons went unserviceable due to soft case ammunition separating in the breach; this would have been manageable under normal battle conditions.

Essentially the sacred maxim of absolute solid all round defense at all halts was disobeyed at their peril and in particular an uncontrolled mish mash of troops all over the battle field surprised by a huge fast moving tribal infantry ...which essentially over ran the British before they were able to regroup. All they needed to do was form a defensive square and laager up the wagons in it perimeter. Such was the lethality of the Martini Henry that such action would probably have saved the day...

Later some distance away at Rourkes Drift another group of 140 British armed with the same weapon were to beat off 4,000 Zulu by being organised into just that...a solid all round organised and well led defence... if not a little Welsh singing by the Sergeant Major... :)

:) unlike the movie, they were not really a welsh regiment yet - that came later.

there are some who say the two officers, bromhead and chard were fairly incompetent (bromhead was quite deaf and chard was just thick) and most of the defence was set up by one of the other officers & the sargent major.

i've seen adiscussion video on yootoobe that showed the cartridge boxes could easily be opened with a sharp blow from a rifle butt. they were designed that way.

lord chelmsford was even thicker, and blamed everybody but himself for the fiasco at islandwhana, his great friend victoria whitewashed him. the zulu king also warned his brother commanding the zulus at rorkes drift to never attack a dug in british position, which was ignored with the expected result, most of the zulu dead occurred at300-600 yards, the fierce hand to hand melee combat of the movie did not happen. the martini henry was just too much. it was the real hero.

islandhwana was played down and the great victory -really a minor skirmish at best - at rouke's drift got all the media attention and the medals to cover up chelmsford's negligence and stupidity.

The last couple of posts are a fair overview of the battles at Isandlwana and Rourk's Drift.

Best books on the subject are;
"Like Wolves on the Fold", and "How can men die Better" By Mike Snook.

There was quite a bit of hand-to hand at Rourk's drift, but not of course as much as in the film.
The bayonet was used, but the Zulu appear to have had a very healthy respect for it, and tried to keep their distance!
The long thin "Lunger" bayonet was the best for the M-H, even if some bent in use.

yes, there was some. most of the zulu's 800 odd dead were at long range tho. three of the brit dead were from the zulus appallingly bad gunfire, 14 brits were killed by their iklwa and iwisa.

i wonder what would have happened if there had been a detachment of gurkhas there instead of the 24th foot. probably a lot more dead zulus.

the brits at omdurman apparently had troubles with bent bayonets, there was quite a scandal in the UK about bad batches of blades being issued that had not been heat treated. some of these were apparently at omdurman, the soldiers straightened them over their knee and carried on, the kink not affecting their use. some picked up a fallen comrade's weapon with a straight one and carried on. again, most of the charging enemy was killed at long range, in the main charge against the british ranks, only one old man with a flag got to within 50 yards of their lines, staggering on most had been killed or wounded or fled at 100. they of course were amazed at this, then shot him. they had enfields, the egyptians had m-h's tho. they also had machine guns and artillery and the dervishes did not. there was again, a fair amount of hand to hand on various parts of the field, winston churchill in particular had some close calls in a charge there.