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-   -   keris origin (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=25309)

GIO 25th September 2019 05:53 PM

keris origin
 
Would it be possible to identify the origin of this kris ? It has a rather disproportionate base part and an ULER LULUT pamor which made me suppose a Balinese origin. On the other hand overall size (35 cm or 14 inch) leads me towards Java. Sorry for the bad pic. I am trying to etch the blade.
Thanks in advance for your help

GIO 25th September 2019 06:07 PM

Keris origin
 
Photo follows

GIO 26th September 2019 12:45 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Here it is

Jean 26th September 2019 07:38 AM

2 Attachment(s)
Not Balinese IMO but rather S... The shape with the protruding ganja and 7 or 9 very shallow waves is typical. :)

A. G. Maisey 26th September 2019 08:19 AM

It might be the camera angle Jean, but from what I can see I doubt that this keris is classifiable as Segaluh, the blumbangan does not appear to be wide enough, the pesi is insufficiently central. But I would tend to agree with Sunda/West Jawa.

Jean 26th September 2019 12:17 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey
It might be the camera angle Jean, but from what I can see I doubt that this keris is classifiable as Segaluh, the blumbangan does not appear to be wide enough, the pesi is insufficiently central. But I would tend to agree with Sunda/West Jawa.


Thank you Alan and I agree with Sunda/ West Java (the land of origin of Segaluh), but do you refer to my blade or the one from Gio?
Regards

A. G. Maisey 26th September 2019 08:52 PM

GIO's keris Jean, your's is definitely Segaluh.

Jean 27th September 2019 09:46 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey
GIO's keris Jean, your's is definitely Segaluh.


Thank you Alan. I feel amazed that this type of blade with such a complex pamor could be attributed to a tangguh linked to a 12th century period, but we know that it is irrelevant.
Regards :)

A. G. Maisey 27th September 2019 12:00 PM

Well Jean, it probably depends upon the way in which we approach this idea of "tangguh".

I was taught by a man whom I, and many others, accepted as a master of the art of keris classification, and what I was taught was that if a keris was able to be truly given any specific tangguh, that tangguh was without doubt attached to the historic era, or the location, that was associated with the name.

However, many people wish to believe that tangguh is always associated with the historical era, and conveniently forget that very often a location name and an era name are the same.

It is also very easy to forget that the word "tangguh" in this context of keris classification carries the meaning of opinion.

If somebody wishes to hold the opinion that this keris we are currently looking at is however many hundred years old, I'm not going to argue with him, its his opinion and he has a right to that opinion. I might try to alter the way in which he has arrived at that opinion, but his opinion, whatever it may be, is his, and he has every right to cherish it.

Incidentally, I don't think I would call this a complex pamor, it is actually very simple and easily produced, it is just surface manipulation.

Jean 27th September 2019 12:12 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey
If somebody wishes to hold the opinion that this keris we are currently looking at is however many hundred years old, I'm not going to argue with him, its his opinion and he has a right to that opinion. I might try to alter the way in which he has arrived at that opinion, but his opinion, whatever it may be, is his, and he has every right to cherish it.



Hello Alan,
Although this is a difficult if not impossible question, may I ask you your best personal guess about the age range of these 2 blades from the pics?
Best regards

A. G. Maisey 27th September 2019 08:45 PM

From photos Jean, and not knowing anything else?

Sorry, I'm not that good.

GIO 28th September 2019 02:16 PM

Many thanks, Jean and Alan, for the kind and complete explanation. And yes, I find my keris very similar to Jean's for what dapur is concerned. I suppose, as said in my opening post, that such pamor is not so common on West-Javanese blades. Once the etching is complete - and successful !- shall post pics.

Jean 28th September 2019 05:51 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by GIO
Many thanks, Jean and Alan, for the kind and complete explanation. And yes, I find my keris very similar to Jean's for what dapur is concerned. I suppose, as said in my opening post, that such pamor is not so common on West-Javanese blades. Once the etching is complete - and successful !- shall post pics.


Hello Gio,
I also got this one in my collection with a dapur more similar to yours but which is more recent I think.
Regards

GIO 30th September 2019 08:28 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Hi Jean
here a better pic of my keris, if it may help


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