Yataghan for translation and comment
 

Hello,

Recently purchased this Yataghan and I would appreciate any comments pertaining it.

Is it Greek, Bosnian or Turkish? Any date or maker's name in the cartouches?

Can anybody help me please with the translation of the cartouches?

Best regards,

Marius

The hilt form looks more Turkish to me than Balkan.

Very nice!

I HAVE NO IDEA BUT ITS A SUPERB EXAMPLE,I FEEL A LITTLE BIT JEALOUS.

beautiful

Got lucky this time. I was the loosing bidder but the winner didn't make the payment so the auction house sold it to me. :)

Still nobody to help me with the translation? :shrug:

Once again a very nice yatagan with intact inscription. I looked all over trying to find a similar one but no luck so far, the monster head on the sabbard tip says Balkans to me but were exactly is the question.

I think that without a clear written location or smith's signature, it is close to impossible to accurately locate the place of manufacture since many manufacturing centers shared the same know-how and tradition and smiths and skills traveled frequently from center to center within the Ottoman Empire.

Still no translation? :shrug:

Hello Zifir,

Can you please help me with this one as well?

Best regards,

Marius Mioc

Hi Marius,

Sorry for late reply but have had severe computer problems and system will not accept replies from iPad.

Cant help with translation but would like to congratulate you on owning such a beautiful piece, wonderful. I think it may be Turkish. I read somewhere that the warriors threw away their yagtahan scabbards when they went into battle, collecting them later if they were victorious, I don't think that they would throw this scabbard away which leads me to think that it is a status or dress item but whatever it is a really beautiful piece.
Regards
Miguel

Thank you for your appreciation... but I will redirect it towards the master swordsmith who made such a masterpiece! ;)

Well said Marius. Iwas wondering if you have had a chance to research the Yataghan in your new book and if so have you found if it is Balkan or not?
Regards
Miguel

Hello Miguel,

Based on comparisons with some pieces in Elgood's book, it may be from Crete. However, I am not sure about that because of other distinctive characteristics. Moreover, I am not sure that Elgood's geographical attribution can be considered for reference as it appears to be based more on anectodal evidence. :shrug:

To me is quite clear that styles and crafts traveled throughout the Ottoman empire and it may be impossible to accurately locate a point of origin.

Well, certainly it is not from Crete, and i do not think is from any other Greek place either.

Quite possible! That was my first impression too, but then after looking into Elgood's book, I thought that maybe Crete. :shrug:

Thank you very much for your suggestion! :)

Hello Marius,

I think you may be right which is frustrating at times but is all part of the enjoyment of the researching process :) I have just ordered the book as I have always been satisfied with the quality of Elgood`s research and hope I am not disappointed as I have noted some criticisms with this book which is something I have not seen about his previous works. At any rate they have not put me off and I look forward to receiving it. I still think that your Yataghan may be Turkish :)
Regards
Miguel

Thank you very much for your oppinion! That was my first thought too.

Well, have a look at Elgood's book and let me know what you think afterwards!

Have a nice weekend! :)

Will gladly offer my opinion when I have received and had a chance to study its content, Hope to receive later this week.
Till then
Miguel

Hi Marius, sorry for the delayed reply my book got lost but now I have it and looked at the Cretan Yataghans I see why you thought it may be from there as there are similarities, I really don't know what to think. It still feels Turkish to me but I think your earlier comment about possibly never being able to establish the true origin may prove to be correct. It is a pity that no one has been able to offer a translation it is such a splendid piece.
Regards
Miguel

Hi,
It's not a Greek yataghan, I think it's a Turkish one.
I attach some photos of a Greek one, sold recently.
One of the most beautifull that I have ever seen (look at the church on the scabbard). And it's funny to see that the blade is Ottoman...of course...
Unfortunatly I don't have any photo of the complete sword...
Sorry it's not mine but i wish...
Kubur

Beautiful indeed! Thank you very much for the photos!
:)

As with regards to the origins of Balkan/Turkish weapons, i am afraid that in too many instances it would be almost impossible to ascertain a precise origin, with reasonable certainty.

We can only say that is an Ottoman Yataghan, probably Turkish... or Balkans... or Greece... :shrug:

Hi Marius,
mmmmmmmm...I'll just remove Greece form the Balkan area...
Just my opinion...

I know, but if you have a look at Elgood's book on weapons from Greece, you'll find some very similar Yataghans atributted to Greece...
:shrug:

I have yet to find a scabbard that is like yours, all of the ones I have seen had bands around the throat, yours seems to be unusual. Here is an example of what is said to be a Greek yatagan compared to yours.

Hi, this last one "it said to be greek" yataghan, is clearly an algerian yataghan.
Some comments: Not all Greece had the same style, since they were no borders and the influences/parts/ and craftpeople travelled freely.
Second, untill a few years ago, there have been a lot of Greek buyers with money and interest in these kind of weapons, so the sellers were happy to "baptise" everything "greek" since it sell better. The yataghan posted by Kubur is a Greek one, propably of a post-revolution era (after 1830)

Exactly!

First, there is quite some distance between Crete and Macedonia for example, and the styles can be very different too.

Second, it is exactly the impression I got from Elgood's book: that he attributed the origins of the blades there mostly based on the anecdotal evidence from the owner, which I consider not trustworthy.
:)

It is WOOTZ!
 

As the blade had some spots of superficial rust, I alocated today a couple of hous cleaning it. The rust came off nice and easy but, to my surprise while cleaning the blade some watering pattern became quite apparent.

So I guess the blade is wootz.

Please have a look at the photos and let me know what you think!

And still hoping to get a translation of the cartouches... :o