Strange matchlock pistol for ID CHINA ?
 

A friend of me just send me those pics about a matchlock system.
I hope that somebody could help him for identification.
Sorry the bad photos quality .
Regards

Cerjak

Wow. Unlike anything I've ever seen. Everything is backward. Lock is on the left. "Hammer" cocks forward, like the earlier matchlocks. Trigger pushes forward. And, the rammer comes out the back. I love it! For some reason, I'm thinking Maylasia

A very beautiful and unusual firearm, I like it a lot.

At face value, although a wide net, I would suggest French Indo China as a region of origin, where exactly within I couldn't say but a guess would lead me to the Laos Tonkin border regions.

Gav

To what does the forum think "T" over "A" refers?
Regards
Richard

We have an old saying here in England about 'A over T' :p

Check out South America, Amazonian area. They were using matchlocks there as late as the 19thC. I have seen some pics and they were quite original in design.

very scarce matchlock pistol
 

At last I found the origin from this very scarce matchlock pistol .
It will be nice if a member couls post one scan from “Islamic Weapons - Maghrib to Moghul" di Anthony C. Tirri", pag. 371, fig. 268” AS I don’t have this book
Best
CERJAK

dating: 18th Century
provenence: Ceylon
Round iron barrel completely engraved with wave design, breech brass plate with monogramm "AT" and floral engravings, 13 mm cal.; interesting leftside iron lock with brass pan and automatic pan cover mechanism; wooden full stock with engraved brass mounts and wooden ramrod.Illustrated in "Islamic Weapons - Maghrib to Moghul" di Anthony C. Tirri", pag. 371, fig. 268.
Most probably Portuguese craftmanship. The Only one known to exist.

Hi Cerjak.
I have a copy of Tirri's book but never really noticed this pistol. So I just read about it. Has to be the most unusual matchlock mechanisms I've ever seen.
It's mentioned that most of the locks were mounted on the Left side of the gun. I wonder why? Usually, this was reserved for a left hand shooter that would make a custom order. Super unusual build and design. Thanks for posting this Thread. I need to look through this book more carefully. LOL
Rick.

Hi Rick

Thank you for your comment I hope you could post one copy from this mentionned page.

Best

Cerjak

I just took a photo of the page. Hope this works.....

Rick

No pictures for simailar pistols or similar lock ?

Hi Cerjak.
No. No other photos than the ones posted above.
Rick.

fig. 268 from Maghrib to Moghul"
 

Thank you Rick

So fig. 268 from Maghrib to Moghul" di Anthony C. Tirri", pag. 371 doesn't
exist in the book ?
May be an other book ?
Anyway i hope that somebody in the forum could find similar pistol or at less a similar lock I can't believe that there is only one exemplar for this pistol.

Best

Cerjak

Hi Cerjak.
Here are the only two photos on page 371 of the book. I'm sure it's the same pistol as the photos above. Sorry for the poor quality of the pics.
Rick.

Rick

Thank you so much ,yes it is the same pistol !
I have spend hours looking after informattion about this pistol and never found a similar model .

Best

Cerjak

Hi Cerjak.
I have never seen another pistol like it. It may indeed be the only one known to exist. It would be interesting to know the theory for mounting the locks on the Left side. Hmmmm :shrug:
Rick.

Yes RICK

I have started this thread in december 2012 so It had took 3 years for ID this pistol but I will continue looking for similar pistol ,hopping that a day
I will find more information.
Thank you for your support.

Cerjak

Today this pistol joined my collection so I can post more pictures.I have discovered that the collection from Anthony C. Tirrisold was sold by Czerny’s in 2009 so this pistol come formally from this collection.
I still trying to find documentation about similar lock system and I hope that in the forum somebody will be able to bring some input about the firearms from Ceylon.
BEST
Cerjak

Hi Cerjak!
First of all.......my congratulations!!! What a wonderful - and super interesting - addition to your collection. WOW !!! :) Nice photos too. A couple of questions:
1. Does the lock function as a "snapping" type similar to a Japanese matchlock ? I can see where part of the serpentine pushes the pan cover forward upon release.
2. Does the trigger pull backward to release as normal? Or does it push forward to release?

Thanks so much for Posting.

Rick.

Hi Rick ,
Thank you very much for your interest.
Actually when one pushes the trigger, the pan cover moves backward and the serpentine get closer to the pan. When one releases the trigger the pan cover moves back to its normal position, and so does the serpentine.
Therefore its an automatic pan cover mechanism.
Did you notice Anthony C. Tirri", pag 460 fig 322 about imitation damascus stell ?
If a day you find more information about similar system please let me know.
Best
Cerjak

Hi Cerjak.
Oh, I see. Now I know why the trigger looks backwards. LOL So you push the trigger forward rather than pulling it backwards. Now it makes sense.
So the lock is mounted on the left side, and the trigger is pushed rather than pulled. The exact opposite of other guns. That is certainly the most curious gun I've ever seen. Don't know how I missed that in Tirri's book. Thanks for bringing that to my attention. I can imagine what an interesting display that gun would make at the Baltimore Antique Arms Show. LOL A real curiosity.
Again, congratulations!!
Rick.

Here are two interesting drawings.

I wonder what the theory is with everything being done from the Left side. Curious.
Rick.

Hi estcrh,

Very interesting .From where did you find this pictures ?

Best

Cerjak

Matchlocks
https://sirimunasiha.wordpress.com/a...la-matchlocks/

Flintlocks
https://sirimunasiha.wordpress.com/a...the-sinhalese/

Muskets and cannon
https://sirimunasiha.wordpress.com/t...-in-sri-lanka/

Left side lock and a push trigger! Could this be a more standard type lock, meant to be on the right side and with a pull trigger, mounted on the left for a particular customer or purpose?

Cerjak,

Tirri says that the monogram reads "AT," which happen to be his own initials. Is it possible that he had the gun engraved with his own monogram? That would be odd, and he would likely have said so in his book, but it is a strange coincidence that his initials are the same as the monogram on the gun.

Ian.

[QUOTE=Ian]Cerjak,

Tirri says that the monogram reads "AT," which happen to be his own initials. Is it possible that he had the gun engraved with his own monogram? That would be odd, and he would likely have said so in his book, but it is a strange coincidence that his initials are the same as the monogram on the gun.

Ian.[/QUOTE
Ian
I did not make the connection between this monogram and tirri initials.
Yes very odd but we will never know as Anthony C. Tirri passed away in 2014
Best

Cerjak

historypistols.ru
 

A very detailed article about this pistol has been written by Andrey the site administrator historypistols.ru and you can consult it by the following link, the article is written in Russian however the site has a translator.

http://historypistols.ru/blog/fitiln...tolet-18-veka/

Great references on a very interesting item, many thanks guys!

If i dare have a say on this one, i would start by assuming that i would not reject that this pistol is one of a kind, whether commissioned by an exquisite customer or made exclusively by a smith with lots of imagination for his own property.

Looking at the center link in post #25 we read allusions to the letters AT being related with coins of the period (first half 17th century), whether the intention was to "transfer" the coin attitude or just the use of the same type (font) of letters. In fact the AT initials position in the pistol are inverted to those in the coins. Such coins are called "tangas", minted in (then) Portuguese Goa for use in Melaka (Malaca) and Sri Lanka (Ceilão). Also with some imagination we may realize that one of the decorations in this pistol breech has some resemblance with the grid of Saint Lourenço de Huesca, a Spanish medieval catholic deacon who was roasted (grilled) on fire by order of the Roman Emperor Valeriano. Remember that Portugal was reigned by Spanish Filipes between 1580-1640, thus the grid symbol in some coins ... so i realize.

As for the locks on the left side, we may see in the drawing posted by estcrh that these weapons were held against the left shoulder, which makes it coherent with the lock position.

I have been in contact with a prominent collector, whom in turn has had a strong relationship with W. Keith Neal, Master of the Worshipful Gunmakers Company of London, whom in the mid 20th. century already collected Cinhalese firearms. Mr. Neal assumed that they either have left hand locks as right hand ones, with no particular distinction. He eventually had in his collection an example which in time had a Portuguese snap matchlock on the right side, that was later converted into a dog catch flintlock on the left side. Having my contact discussed the left side lock issue with another scholar of his acquaintance, they registered that a great number of Cinhalese still writes with their left hand, concluding that in earlier periods such number was so significant that they have opted by producing guns with the lock in both sides.

Eventually Great Britain is the country in Europe where more left hand guns were produced, as actually is where more left handers exist.


.


.

Dear Fernando,
Thanks for your post & your new photos and Thank you for re-quoted the post #25 sent by Estcrh
https://sirimunasiha.wordpress.com/a...la-matchlocks/
About the monogram appearing on the breech plate,the hypothesis regarding the letter AT seems very relevant, on the photos of the coins you posted we see a real similarity of font type and also An identical combination of the letter but reversed finally concerning the floral design I also recognize at least an influence.


best
Jean-Luc