very long barrel percussion pistol
 

Hi All
I have just purchased the following pistol
any idea on what it is i have purchased unseen as a Christmas project as it looks like the trigger and hammer spring are both gone or broken
probably spent too much but i have never seen a barrel as long on a pistol like this
i found an allen and wheelock 10 inch barrel similar boot pistol but this definitely is a longer barrel weapon
the German bayonet in the picture has approx a 10 inch blade so i reckon this gun is in or around a 20 inch barrel!
any ideas
Thanks
Ken

A concealed (clandestine) shooting gun ? :o .

A walking stick gun? Maybe!
I should have it within the week but I will not open the package till Christmas morning. I know a bit infantile but a bit of fun and our family tradition That dad is excited to open his presents as well as the little ones. Just got to get something for my wife now!
Regards
Ken

Ken, I'd say a cane gun as well, principally due to the barrel length and the characteristic grip, which serves either purpose. A nice find!

M

Well, if it's a cane gun it's about as subtle as a crutch. :eek:

Obviously not a cane sword. The suggestion was not a weapon to be concealed inside a cane but, naked as it is, concealed under the overcoat. You walk down to the (city) park, pull it off and shoot a piece of game !

Hi All
Thanks for your interest
here is a few i came across on the web
looks sort of similar
basically looks like a long barrel pistol and you have some sort of screw off plug at the top of the barrel for when using as a walking stick (a not very discrete item at all)
cant imagine it would be v accurate more of a curiosity I suppose but that is why i purchased it so i cant be too critical!!
regards

ken

Those two are not the same thing ... right ?
The lower one would be a cane gun; but the upper one is like yours and i don't think is the same kind of implement.
I will stand corrected though :o .

Hello

Only for a comment. It would be necessary to see if the barrel is original, or if it has been added later, to create a "curious" weapon (and be able to sell it like this)

Affectionately

Hi Fernando
No not the same thing in second image, first though looks to be a reasonable match though.
The second picture of the two shows the plug at the bottom of the barrel so that the barrel does not presumably get plugged with mud when you are using the gun as a a cane.
Sort of same family
I am wondering will there be threads at the bottom of the barrel on mine to screw in a plug?
we will see on Christmas morning? I enjoy the guessing at the moment though
Thanks again for observations
Ken

Wonder if there is a hole at the base of the stock. See attached. If not a cane gun, it could be an early (percussion) ‘bicycle’ pistol.

http://www.horstheld.com/0-Day.html

Check to see if there is a hole at the back of the grip. If not a cane gun, it could be an early percussion ‘bicycle’ pistol.

See more here: http://www.oldbike.eu/museum/guns/ and here, for one w/ removable buttstock: http://www.horstheld.com/0-Day.html


.

Hi Ken,
When you receive it, check to see if there is a fixing point for a shoulder stock. I suspect that if there is one, it will be what is loosely called a Poachers Gun. Not likely to be a cane or walking stick gun as they are usually "full length" with a barrel bung of some sort.
Interesting piece by the way.............

Stu

I remember now the name given by the French to poachers: Braconnier; and the name of famous French novelist that became one.
Here THE ACCOUNT of his Braconnier adventures; and the advert. on one of the models i used to have.


.

Well here is the gun and I have it all back in working order.

All that was wrong was the mainspring retaining screw which powered both the hammer and the trigger, was broken so I had to make and replace the screw as well as removing a lot of rust and crud build up

Took some effort to get into the mechanism but I got there in the end.
I had to drill out the hammer pin to get the hammer out as the screw head was mushed and this had to be then re manufactured but not much of a job really as I have a lathe.

I got the barrel unscrewed with a bit of persuasion using oxo acetylene torch and some cycles of hot and cold. Final quench was with diesel. which when you heat the treads up to around 200 Celsius and then syringe diesel onto the threads the diesel gets pulled into the treads and hence lubricate which greatly eases the two parts apart ( I checked thoroughly to ensure unloaded before this heating job)

So
19 inch barrel with tapered screw threads
No markings at all on gun except for 19 on the barrel, so this might be barrel length which would indicate non continental manufacture


The aging platina etc demonstrate to me that the parts were together for a v v long time

No proof mark I can make out and I do not think there was ever any makers marks

There is no mounting at all for a stock and in my opinion there never was one

Very unwieldy and impossible to aim accurately, small bead front sight
Approx 10 mm caliber

Nice smooth mechanism which cocks, locks and fires perfect

Any more opinions welcome
I am putting it down as a 1840. - 1860 takedown pistol for opertunistic poaching or hunting but with no stock it would probably have to be loaded with shot to have any chance of hitting game

Comments welcome

Happy 2019 to all

Ken

In my foto archive I found nearly the same pistol with an attachable shoulder stock made as says the mark on the barrel at St. Eteinne in France.
corrado26

Having had a long time interest in antique arms and armour I have to say that I've only seen in passing, a couple of these 'turn off' box locks with barrels of such length, having said that, the pistol itself, is very similar to what is probably the most common product of the Belgian gun makers of the early/mid 19th C.
Seeing the photographs I realise that it is not merely a standard pistol body fitted with the extra length barrel, as I had assumed.
With those, the breech where the powder and ball is contained (they were loaded after removing the barrel) is less than an inch long and the powder capacity was limited to quite a small volume with the ball in a spherical seat on top. The first thing that I notice with this one is that the length of the breech is much greater, probably intended for a quantity of shot on top of the powder, rather than a ball.
Is the inside diameter of the breech parallel all of the way to the nipple or stepped down to a smaller powder chamber?

Hi Mel and Corrado26
Thanks for interest and Corrado26 you have found a v close match few differences but overall construction V similar.
Mel
The barrel narrows about an half an inch from the nipple to a v small diameter of maybe 4 mm or so but i am unsure if there is a chamber behind the constriction or not
there otherwise a uniform diameter for the remainder of the barrel

Thinking about the weapon it is v concealable and might have been designed to be used with or without the barrel attachment. ie a short or long ranged weapon
the absence of shoulder stock attachment though is awkward. but resting on a wall or fence would negate this difficultly

regards

Ken

My first thoughts were that it was feasible that it was intended for dual use, that's what prompted my query about the diameter of the breech and its capacity to hold a shot or ball as well as the powder.