Ethnographic Arms & Armour

Ethnographic Arms & Armour (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/index.php)
-   Ethnographic Weapons (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=2)
-   -   Sudanese spear scepter (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=15621)

Lew 28th May 2012 05:20 AM

Sudanese spear scepter
 
1 Attachment(s)
Just picked this up on eBay. Seems to be a Mahdi period piece?

Tim Simmons 29th May 2012 05:54 PM

Looking forward to seeing better pictures. The butt end look like aluminium and before people think aluminium means around mid 20th century. Most European armies were issued aluminium mess tin well before WW1 and cookware companies were supplying aluminium pots and pans in the 1890s and perhaps even earlier. Like plastic bowls and buckets I bet the African market lapped them up. Easy to melt and turn into all sort of things.

spiral 29th May 2012 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons
cookware companies were supplying aluminium pots and pans in the 1890s and perhaps even earlier. Like plastic bowls and buckets I bet the African market lapped them up. Easy to melt and turn into all sort of things.

I havent fully researched it Tim, but I thought Aluminium only became a non precious metel around 1912 to 1914 era? So saucepans seem rather unlikely?

Or perahaps Im mistaken?

Id also guess zinc & tin also have a similar apprence in a low res. photo.

Spiral

Lew 30th May 2012 03:38 AM

Have a better look ;)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/251067015071...ht_4481wt_1081

Tim Simmons 30th May 2012 07:32 AM

Quote {power house of cookware 1893-1920} Just a quick look.

http://www.wisconsinhistory.org/wmh/...rticleID=26240

Mess tin dated. These were in use well before WW1

http://www.1420h.org.uk/archives/messtin/messtin.html

pre 1914 Russian Aluminiun bottles

http://www.collect-militaria.com/ind...571&page=1&c=5

Timo Nieminen 30th May 2012 08:52 AM

1 Attachment(s)
De-preciousization was about 1890. Before that, fit for VIPs, capping prestige momuments, etc. After that, rapidly cheaper. Some history at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium#History.

I thought this sceptre/spear/thing was cute, but not really my thing. Also, Quarantine here doesn't like the import of animal products like this. At best, they tend to charge for gamma-irradiation of it before you can get it. But that's my problems with it, not yours, so congrats on a cute sceptre/spear/thing!

Here is my favourite Sudanese thing. It's modern (1970s or 1980s iirc), but supposedly made in the traditional style.

spiral 30th May 2012 08:55 AM

Nice piece Lew, Steel I see. :)

Hi Tim, Yes I see the International Aluminium institute says world production was up to 8000 tonnes by 1900. My error, it was a precious metal untill around 1889

The American firm you linked to started producing cookware in 1914, they original imported ally for novelties from Germany. {The Austrians & Swiss bieng the main producers apparently.}

Spiral

colin henshaw 31st May 2012 09:15 AM

Interesting. Reminds me a bit of the Kordofan "dance spears" in a previous post. Maybe a cut down Mahdist spear adapted for use in ceremonial dancing ??

Martin Lubojacky 31st May 2012 10:39 AM

Africans ased and still use and apply everything, what is "on hand". The main

Martin Lubojacky 31st May 2012 10:44 AM

criterion was and is pragmatism. From this reason, there is a lot of artefacts, e.g. swords, with aluminium parts etc. Maybe they are not as nice as if they were peoduced of eg. copper etc, but, i think, it should not not derogate their value and significance


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 04:40 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.