Tulwar with some unusual modifications
 

I just won an auction for this tulwar for a very cheap price for obvious reasons. I can't make heads or tails of these auction pictures. It looks like the end of the hilt has been replaced with a drawer knob. It also looks like a pin has been pushed through the hilt into the tang.
It does look like the patina on the blade and the hilt are consistent, so I assume these modifications were made a long time ago.
Can anybody tell me anything else about this Tulwar?

Edit: Now I'm wondering if the knob on the end is original. Here's a couple threads with similar hilts

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?p=148296
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...t=tulwar+hilts

I think you're on track with your assessment on this most unusual and apparently altered tulwar as this pommel seems quite disproportionate .
Thank you for sharing your preliminary findings and thoughts as well, that is a most helpful approach to initiate discussion ... excellent!!!

I am inclined to agree that this 'pommel' seems to be some sort of ersatz replacement using a knob or fixture not intended originally for use on a hilt.
It seems that tribal artisans in regions of India's northwest have always been extremely innovative in refurbishing weapons. It would seem that a 'rugged' and rather obvious fabrication like this would be more likely to have been an authentic 'field' adjustment as opposed to a more 'commercial' product.

While pretty rough, these kinds of examples are always intriguing, as trying to imagine the circumstances in which it became in its present form and condition lend to fascinating possibilities.

Thank you. My other thought is that perhaps it was modified deliberately by some westerner who found the disc uncomfortable and wanted a little extra length in the grip. But if that was the case they probably would have done a tidier job.

Not to digress from the topic at hand, but here's a European looking dagger that appeared to have a dresser drawer knob for a pommel as well. Maybe it's just coincidence. I didn't win the auction for it unfortunately.

It seems that there are a number of examples of tulwar from Afghan regions which are sans pommel disc, and in discussions it was sometimes suggested that Afghans were inclined to have much larger hands than the Indian warriors to the south. Perhaps such replacement or adjustment might have been warranted in accord with these circumstances. It does seem that in those instances that the pommel area was left open, though some of these seem to actually have never had the pommel disc.

In the case of the dagger noted, I would likely be more suspicious, but the coincidence seems interesting.

The pin through the grip and tang is also a common Afghan feature....look up pulwar also spelled pulouar.

The pin was also used by the Indians, but it was mostly hidden by the hilt decoration.
Jens

Thanks both. So that explains the pin and the pommel. Still a mystery is the welding or solder in the middle of the hilt. And it looks like the steel's split in two by the cross guard. Maybe they were field repairs.

Edit: almost forgot to mention the seller's in France, probably the only one I've seen for sale out of that country.

The solder/whatever in the middle of the hilt is just to fill a casting flaw.

spiral

I see. Are Tulwar hilts typically made out of a single piece of cast metal? I've being going through pictures on the forum and I've noticed that some of the plainer hilts have what looks like a weld near the cross guard. It appears to be only on one side. I've attached some pictures of what I'm talking about with the weld circled.

It arrived today, and boy is that hilt weird. First the dimensions...

It's 7mm thick at the base. After the ricasso it tapers to 5mm and stays that way until the false edge at the tip.

The blade's 35mm wide at the base, tapers to 32mm after the ricasso, then towards the tip it widens back to 35mm again.

There's eyelash marks struck by the hilt, but that's the only mark I can see.

The hilt is filled with some shiny metal, maybe zinc. It looks like the hilt was dismantled, filled with zinc, and then put back together again. I don't know what you call it, but the bit of the hilt that's supposed to slide over the scabbard has been pounded down, so it would have never fit in an Indian style scabbard again. Even in this condition the hilt's quite solid and sturdy.

The blade's a very heavy, thick, nice piece of steel. It's in pretty good condition except towards the tip where it's pitted. there's a few tiny failed laminations but otherwise it's a very well built blade. It's very slightly hollow on both sides and the edge is still pretty sharp.

Is there a snowball's chance in hell the blade is wootz? Should I bother trying to etch it?

If you look at your pictures you will se that they are not too good, would it be possible to get better pictures?
You are asking questions, but when the picturtes are bad, it is hard to answer your questions.
Jens

I took these pictures with a pretty good camera but they came out blurry for some reason. I think my hand was shaking. I'll try again tomorrow.

The "door knob" pommel is welded on with modern equipment... So Id guess an amalgamation of bits... {Or "associated" , as the poshest auction houses say, knowing most buyers don't understand the reality of that expression. { lots of random different age pieces stuck together with, glue,Weld & even bolts & screws to make a few extra quid out of the junk bin = "associated" I London,Paris & New York..:shrug: }

Spiral

If I may ask, if it was up to you would you leave this frankenstein as it is or would you free the blade and pair it with at $50 hilt from ebay. I am madly in love with this skull crushing blade but the hilt doesn't do anything for me if it isn't historically interesting.

I don't hold out much hope for any part of the ensemble . :(
Would suggest a more discriminating eye ? :o

With regards to the hilts construction, they are made from 9 pieces typically...rarer examples such as silver ones may also have been made from multiple pieces but when finished would appear as a single piece.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...t=tulwar+hilts

Gavin

I wouldn't have bought it unless it was the price of a bag of chips.... :shrug:

Even then I don't know what I would do with it. If the blade turned out to be laminated/wootz or well sprung I might re.handle it... otherwise not.

That could be just throwing good money after bad...

But your the man to decide what's useful or collectable to you.

Spiral

Well, I got it for around half the prices of the cheapest Tulwar I've seen go up for auction. I'm just glad it doesn't have "MADE IN INDIA" stamped on it.

I've attached some closeups of the blade steel. There does appear to be some layering but I don't see any evidence of a watered steel pattern. I'll give it a few hours in some diluted PCB etchant and see what happens.

Gav, thank you for that information and for the link ...that was a great and informative thread and I had forgotten it altogether. I had no idea these hilts were made in 9 pieces!

B.L. as far as my opinion on this, I would say leave it alone and focus on the blade, which clearly has its own history before being 'refurbished'. As Spiral has noted, the eloquent smokescreen used by these upper echelon firms use the term 'associated' and often even 'composite' (rather like the term 'antique' describing garage sale junk, just with a higher price). In collectors jargon these kinds of pieces are 'put together' or 'mules'.

Indeed in many colonial regions and tribal cultures the enterprise of creating souveniers for tourists as well as occupying forces etc is a thriving commerce. However, to paint this entire strata of arms with the broad brush of tourist junk and dismiss any possibility of genuine tribal use is often a bit arbitrary despite its high probability.

In the expanse of Afghan regions into the remote tribal areas of northwest India it remains possible for such ersatz creations to remain in use in at least some degree, and has been the case for many years. Native artisans who produce reproductions or traditional items for commercial purposes are remarkably skilled, and this profoundly rough work to me still seems like field work with pragmatic intent.

I have seen 17th century blades mounted with modern, but traditional hilts, which are admittedly less than appealing. However this at least has some age to all components, and in my perception a good context for this fascinating blade. I'd leave it alone, and enjoy imagining the possibilities of the life of the blade in earlier times.

Thanks Jim,

I say typically when I refer to 9, there are 8 piece examples, 10, 11 & 12 too....just my observations.

Gavin

Thanks Jim, I think I'll leave it as is. I'd have to double my money into it to get even a basic hilt and then it'd be just another low end Tulwar. As it is, it's interesting at least even if it's ugly. And as you say it shows that it's had an interesting life.

I've given it an hour with diluted PCB etchant, nothing interesting's popped up so far. It just turned the blade frosty gray. I'll give it a few more treatments and polish it before I give up.