Ethnographic Arms & Armour

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-   -   Sinhala / Sri Lankan Swords? (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=14998)

Ibrahiim al Balooshi 6th August 2017 06:40 PM

3 Attachment(s)
What is peculiar about this Kastane is the blade size and configuration almost machete like...

ariel 6th August 2017 06:51 PM

First of all, I am not aware of anyone from a geographical place called "Geniza" ( Ibrahiim's first post).
Geniza is a Hebrew word for a ritual place dedicated to the " burial" of sacred texts and any objects containing G-d's name. By law, they cannot be destroyed, so they are deposited in a specially-assigned place.
They are a treasure trove for the historians: written documents dating to ancient times, fragments of Torah scrolls etc.
The most famous one was Cairo Geniza.

The story of Christian Jews is strange. As mentioned, converted Jews cease their affiliation with Judaism, unless forced to do so and do not re-affirm their old adherence when the fear of death is removed. Jews in Holland/England are the classic example. Bnei Israel mostly emigrated to Israel in the 1950-60s, and had always been viewed as impeccably Jewish by the Israeli religious authorities.

And it is not Ala: it is Alia, ascent. Returning from another country to Israel is viewed as ascent, elevation. Those who emigrate from Israel are called Yordim, descending, coming down. Israel in general, and Jerusalem in particular are viewed by Judaism as the highest spiritual place in the world.

The contribution of Jews to North African trades and crafts both before and after 1492 ( when Jews were evicted from Spain) is well established. But there were significant Jewish communities all over N. Africa dating back to Greek and Roman occupation of Judea. As a matter of fact, one of the recurring motives of the current Berber Independence community ( they call themselves Amazig) is their purportedly Jewish origin and forcible islamization. They claim that their Queen Kahina ( from Cohen?) who resisted invading Arab armies for 3 years was Jewish.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi 6th August 2017 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel
First of all, I am not aware of anyone from a geographical place called "Geniza" ( Ibrahiim's first post).
Geniza is a Hebrew word for a ritual place dedicated to the " burial" of sacred texts and any objects containing G-d's name. By law, they cannot be destroyed, so they are deposited in a specially-assigned place.
They are a treasure trove for the historians: written documents dating to ancient times, fragments of Torah scrolls etc.
The most famous one was Cairo Geniza.

The story of Christian Jews is strange. As mentioned, converted Jews cease their affiliation with Judaism, unless forced to do so and do not re-affirm their old adherence when the fear of death is removed. Jews in Holland/England are the classic example. Bnei Israel mostly emigrated to Israel in the 1950-60s, and had always been viewed as impeccably Jewish by the Israeli religious authorities.

And it is not Ala: it is Alia, ascent. Returning from another country to Israel is viewed as ascent, elevation. Those who emigrate from Israel are called Yordim, descending, coming down. Israel in general, and Jerusalem in particular are viewed by Judaism as the highest spiritual place in the world.

The contribution of Jews to North African trades and crafts both before and after 1492 ( when Jews were evicted from Spain) is well established. But there were significant Jewish communities all over N. Africa dating back to Greek and Roman occupation of Judea. As a matter of fact, one of the recurring motives of the current Berber Independence community ( they call themselves Amazig) is their purportedly Jewish origin and forcible islamization. They claim that their Queen Kahina ( from Cohen?) who resisted invading Arab armies for 3 years was Jewish.


I ONLY STUCK IN THE QUOTATION MARKS ... SEE https://books.google.com.om/books?id...iza%2C&f=false However I think this term also refers to a manuscript hoard see Cairo Geniza - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cairo_Geniza
The Cairo Genizah, alternatively spelled Geniza, is a collection of some 300,000 Jewish manuscript fragments that were found in the genizah or storeroom of the ... etc etc ... It is referring to the manuscripts...and what they have learned from them... not a geographical location.

fernando 6th August 2017 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel
... The story of Christian Jews is strange. As mentioned, converted Jews cease their affiliation with Judaism, unless forced to do so and do not re-affirm their old adherence when the fear of death is removed. Jews in Holland/England are the classic example...

Yet since the beginning of such compulsion, several Converted Jews remained secretely faithful to their religion and had to resource determined 'convincing' practices to hide such creed from their pursuers. We still have remnants of such culture over here; one such community has recently been brought to the open, in a village called Belmonte.
... Unless we have a different view of such status.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel
...And it is not Ala: it is Alia, ascent...

I meant to write Aliá; sorry my mistyping.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi 8th August 2017 11:26 AM

As a reminder to Forum the reason why I brought the detail to thread about the expulsion of Jews from Toledo and the Iberian peninsula was to point to their redistribution around the Mediterranean regions as one of the key source of transfer of design and possibly the influence on Nimcha style since as artisans and particularly sword makers ....and where as migrants to Ceylon they could have had some bearing on sword making in that sphere...but that it was really only a sketch in the margin for interest rather than a topic to change the threads direction. :shrug:

The bigger blade seen at #321 is probably from the VOC often seen on late Kastane but as such it changes nothing in the general theory being discussed viz;

Thus by the simple method of comparison and detail presented herein; it can be seen that the Kastane is very much a home grown design from Buddhist and Hindu sources and not a European import. By the same proof there is no relationship except by accident of design between the Kastane and the Nimcha.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi 8th August 2017 03:36 PM

2 Attachment(s)
The Kastane . From the Higgins Collection. Probably a European blade on an older hilt ...perhaps early Dutch Period. The addition of European blades whilst fairly common should not serve to confuse the issue. Whatever blades were introduced by the Portuguese, Dutch or English should not complicate the issue.and since none were battle weapons it changes nothing but of course is very interesting. At this point the sword was purely a badge of office and court sword....and it is offered because of its powerful Buddhist and Hindu links that it has always been so; A purebred Sri Lankan item.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi 24th August 2017 12:43 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Reference;
A. https://www.colonialvoyage.com/portu...re-war-dutch/#


An interesting little sketch... anyone recognize the tribal infantry on the right with shield and weapon... Its a sketch but that looks like a Storta...but also similar to the Pinhao sword in the stone relief also shown again for comparison. Could they be the same weapon type? :shrug:

The sketch illustrates the landing by Sebald de Weert on 28 Nov 1602



Arrival of Sebald de Weert in Matecalo/Batticaloa

Ibrahiim al Balooshi 28th August 2017 02:19 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Here is another related style of decoration and architecture on an ancient Indian spiked Vajra Mushti The quilons shown are dragon form often seen in Northern Indian form (Afghan Pulour) and other swords including the Kastane.

The Portuguese chronicler Fernão Nunes records the practice of vajra-musti in the southern Vijayanagara Empire. Vajra musti is the martial arts form without the long spikes.

For further detail see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vajra-mushti

:shrug:

Ibrahiim al Balooshi 28th August 2017 08:22 PM

:shrug:

Ibrahiim al Balooshi 28th August 2017 09:04 PM

Here I remind viewers to check out http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...1&page=2&pp=30 which is like a sister thread split to consider different viewpoints of the Sri Lankan weapon situation but equally relevant in the long and clouded history particularly regarding the Kastane.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi 9th September 2017 07:33 AM

Patisthania. The Spear.
 
1 Attachment(s)
THE SPEAR.. appears in Sri Lanka reputed to be Dutch in origin... It is worth noting that although the Portuguese were there from 1505 that The Dutch although they did not take over until much later were there as well. See the sketch below which illustrates the landing by Sebald de Weert on 28 Nov 1602 over on the East coast near Batticaloa. The sketch is very accurate down to the correct shoes hats clothes and other items. At the front of the delegation on the right is a leader of that group with a Dutch Partisan... called in the Singalese name of Patisthania .. Dr Watson there must be a clue there somewhere!

Please also note the peculiar blade on the sword held by the right hand man at front...

For interest the Dutch situation in Sri Lanka kicked off in 1602...spurred on by the VOC formation...

From http://www.wolvendaal.org/history/vo...ower-in-ceylon

Quote"history/The Dutch Period in Ceylon 1602–1796

The Establishment of Dutch Power in Ceylon.

At the dawn of the seventeenth century, the young Dutch Republic was emerging as one of the more – if not the most – enterprising and dynamic forces among the European nations. The Dutch were distinguishing themselves particularly as seafarers venturing into unknown seas and lands. In 1602 the V.O.C. or United East India Company was established. Within a few decades it controlled vast territories in South Africa, Ceylon, the Dutch East Indies (Indonesia) and established a considerable number of settlements in India, Malaysia, Japan and China.

In that same year, on the 2nd of June, the Dutch Admiral Joris van Spilbergen arrived in Ceylon with three ships from the Dutch port of Veere after a 12 month voyage. Visiting Kandy, the seat of King Vimala Dharma Suriya, Spilbergen and the King developed cordial relations. The King’s admiration for his new-found friend was so deep that he begun to learn the Dutch language saying ‘Kandy is now Flanders’. They discussed future relations, focussing on possible Dutch military assistance to expel the Portuguese from the coastal areas as well as the trade in cinnamon and pepper. As a token of his friendship, the Dutch Admiral left in the King’s service two versatile and skilled musicians: Erasmus Matsberger and Hans Rempel.

Shortly after the successful visit of Van Spilbergen, a second Dutch fleet under command of Sebalt de Weert arrived on the island. De Weert was a very skilful commander who discovered the Falkland Islands during the attempt of Dutch Admirals Cordes and Mahu to find an alternative route to the East Indies through Cape Magelheas in 1598. After an initial agreement with the King of Kandy, he returned in 1603 to Batticaloa with a fleet of six ships to take part in a joint effort to oust the Portuguese from the island. During his stay he took four passing Portuguese ships but released the Portuguese crews who had surrendered to the Dutch on the promise of quarter. The King was very angered by this action and after further heated discussions, De Weert and 50 of his compatriots, who happened to a on shore, were unexpectedly killed by the King’s men. The Dutch Council of the Indies considered this assassination as a treacherous murder and held the King accountable."Unquote.


Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.


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